ratcheting mechanism on Spanish Navajas

[Richard W]

I have for a long while wondered what is the function of the ratcheting mechanism on the locks of traditional Spanish navajas. It makes it impossible to open them silently. The only advantage I can see is that it could not be accidentally closed on the hand while opening the knife; perhaps if someone kicked it in mid-open? I have read that it acts much as the rattle on a rattlesnake; announcing imminent danger. If any of you experts have an idea, I would love to know.
Thank you.
Richard.

[Chris Evans]

Hi Richard,

I have for a long while wondered what is the function of the ratcheting mechanism on the locks of traditional Spanish navajas. It makes it impossible to open them silently. The only advantage I can see is that it could not be accidentally closed on the hand while opening the knife; perhaps if someone kicked it in mid-open? I have read that it acts much as the rattle on a rattlesnake; announcing imminent danger. If any of you experts have an idea, I would love to know.
Thank you.
Richard.

There's no easy answer to your question.

The current urban myth is that it was intended to frighten the opponent, but this does not stand up to scrutiny because only a very timid and inexperienced fighter would be so affected and a bolder adversary would take advantage of this impediment.

Some years ago I was told by a knowledgeable Spanish collector that there was some evidence that it was a requirement by the authorities to slow down the opening and provide a warning noise. To me this seems more plausible especially when we recall that a good many navajas had only three teeth, which appear to be some kind of token concession to a requirement.

Another plausible justification is that the ratchet, `carraca’ is Spanish, prevented the inadvertent dangerous opening of the larger blades, say if falling of a horse, but again three teeth do very little.

The undisputed authority on the navaja, Forton, in his very comprehensive and definitive work on this knife, completely avoided this subject.

I’ll add that with the post 1900 levered latch, the navaja can be opened without the back spring engaging with the ratchet and in fact can be flipped open, but not always reliably.



Fernando: I think that this thread should be transferred to the Ethnic Weapons forum where all the past discussions on the navaja took place.


Cheers
Chris

[A. G. Maisey]

I am no expert on navajas, but I have owned several. All the ones that I owned were quite old, quite large, and they could very easily and positively be flipped open, once open it required two hands and effort to close them.

I got rid of all of them probably in the early 1980's.

I had assumed that they were weapons, rather than tools, and as weapons they required a very positive locking system to prevent the blade being closed on the user's hand by an opponent.

At the present time the Roman pattern Italian folder, which is usually just about normal pocket knife size, employs a very similar mechanism to the one that my navajas used --- but my navajas were all over 12" long when closed.

[machinist]

I have always been partial to the rattlesnake idea, many of these knives had a pommel that is composed of a series of globes that kind of/sort of resemble the tail of the rattlesnake and some do have a motto engraved saying" if this serpent bites you there is no remedy in the pharmacy" (or so I am told, it is not my translation) so a serpent motif makes sense to me. I do not think it was to warn others but just to appeal to the buyer, makers of small pocket weapons had to appeal to a young male market so a bit of flash and uniqueness helped to sell the piece.

[Chris Evans]

A. G. Maisey:

According to Forton the bulk of the navajas were relatively small, if I remember right, six to nine inches in blade length. The larger ones were show pieces, many destined for the souvenir market.

And yes, the ones with very large blades, especially if a bit loose, could be flipped open.

As an aside, the technical problem with navajas once the blade length exceeded nine inches was that their weight went up significantly and they remained very weak at the pivot point.

I had assumed that they were weapons, rather than tools, and as weapons they required a very positive locking system to prevent the blade being closed on the user's hand by an opponent

This is another thesis for explaining the ratchet. If the main tooth failed, then there were others as `back-ups'


Machinist: I think that what you are describing with the rattle snake pommels are large folding knives made in France, mostly for the Spanish market.

Cheers
Chris

[A. G. Maisey]

Chris, my navajas are now +30 years out of my possession, but I do recall that two of them had very strong pivot points, the blade extension that provided the foundation for the ratchet teeth went back a good distance into the handle, these were loose joints when unlocked, but very solid joints when locked, there was absolutely nothing "tourist" or souvenir about them.

The third one I had I seem to recall was a bit flimsy, not nearly the same quality as the two I mentioned with solid joints.

I'm probably wrong, but I've never thought of navajas as smaller knives. If we can count any folder with a ratchet locking joint as a navaja I've actually had quite a few navajas, I think all were fairly recent --- say not more than 60 or 70 years old, and just about normal pocket knife size. Over the years I've traded most of these away for other pocket knives, I think I've still got one though.

[kronckew]

couple for illustration, the stag one is quite large (and noisy).

...and some ring pulls, they are mostly in the same family

there is a saying that the sound of the navaja was the last thing many people heard.

[Chris Evans]

A.G. Maisey:

I cannot comment on your navajas without photos and some additional information.

However, I have a representative collection of traditional 19th and 20th century navajas and none of the larger ones are light, in practical terms, or passably strong at the lock. I have handled many antique navajas over the years and have yet to see one with a blade over 9" that was practical..

This subject got a very through airing on this forum about 13 years ago and if you do a search you'll finds lots of good information.


kronckew: Nice collection!


Cheers
Chris

[fernando]

Originally Posted by machinist

I have always been partial to the rattlesnake idea, many of these knives had a pommel that is composed of a series of globes that kind of/sort of resemble the tail of the rattlesnake and some do have a motto engraved saying" if this serpent bites you there is no remedy in the pharmacy" (or so I am told, it is not my translation) so a serpent motif makes sense to me ...

One may understand that calling the opening cracking noise that of a rattlesnake is a coloquial term to go with english speaking media but, i see it as a rather remote use in Spanish terms, where in fact there are no rattlesnakes over the Iberain Peninsula. Actually the motto in navaja blades reads "se esta vibora the pica ..." . This is more plausible, as vipers are common snakes in the territory. The reason for the 'globes' in the pommel will certainly have a different explanation ... perhaps one related with Moor culture.

[Chris Evans]

Fernando,

Originally Posted by fernando

The reason for the 'globes' in the pommel will certainly have a different explanation ... perhaps one related with Moor culture.

Well, the navajas with "globes" originated from France, so what are we to make of that?

Cheers
Chris

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Fernando: I think that this thread should be transferred to the Ethnic Weapons forum where all the past discussions on the navaja took place ...

Done