Another Moro sword for ID

[ariel]

This does not look like a classic Barong to me.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...3146&rd=1&rd=1
What is it?

[Battara]

I'd say a local thing made for sale in the market.

[kai]

IMVHO it looks like a recent Maranao creation partly inspired by a Barong (aimed at a market frequented by travellers rather than Tausug folks ). The handguard and the inlaid dots seem to be common give-aways.

[Ian]

I agree with kai. Probably recent Maranao work. There may also be some Visayan influence reflected in the guard and suspension system for the scabbard.

Ian.

[Freddy]

I know far too little to make any comment on this piece, but what about this one : http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1

It's Moro and apparently a keris blade.

Freddy

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I know far too little to make any comment on this piece, but what about this one : http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1

It's Moro and apparently a keris blade.

Freddy

I'm doubting this is a Moro kris blade .

[Tim Simmons]

I now little of these things, so I need things explained. From what I can see Freddy has acquired an old blade and the handle appears contemporary to the blade, at a very good price I might add. To my limited knowledge it does not look like a tourist item, yet to my untrained eye the blade does look a little unusual especially around the hilt. This weapon looks a lot older and indeed used rather than the one that started the thread. I am waiting to be enlightened. Tim

[Rick]

I doubt the blade is that old ; post 30's or much later .
The details at the base of the blade are kris-like but basically look like hacksaw cuts .
I've never seen a Moro blade that has detailing like this .
Possibly this blade is made after the Moro style .

Now a Moro tourist blade has some slight resemblance .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../20cdetail.jpg
Still it looks like a Moro blade .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ad/20cfull.jpg

[Battara]

AS we have mentioned before on this forum, it is a Lumad mix. The hilt is T'boli and the kris blade is probably also made by them copied to some degree from the Moro.

[kai]

From my POV Freddy got a nice blade, especially considering the price. As already explained it's not Moro though and I'd also won't call this a kris (nor keris). It's certainly inspired by the Moro kris (remember these peoples are neighbors) but those details on the gangya area would IMVHO never be done by a traditional Moro panday (nor within any other keris culture - wether Hindu or Muslim). There have been quite a few of these non-Moro blades lately and while the details vary quite a bit they always look wrong/weird if compared with legitimate Moro pieces. Some even have a notch copying the elefant trunk but may omit the lower lip or are otherwise quite obviously non-Moro. Of course, this isn't a "bad thing" (tm) and these blades deserve to be collected in their own right - especially if they appear to be original, complete pieces. There was a fairly recent thread here and I'll try to post pics of some more examples in there tomorrow.

There also have been a lot of Moro-made kris blades with non-Moro hilts for sale. While some of these are certainly genuine pieces (trade blades or captured and subsequently refitted), most appear to be recent, "forced" marriages. I can't help to think of these as intended to peak collector's curiosity and to sell off blades of lower quality with a more gaudy hilt. Excessive pitch or even glue seems to be a dead give-away for contemporary manipulation/refitting (traditional artisans were apparently more careful a century ago). However, this clue is often visible with other hilts rather than with T'boli or Bagobo brass hilts (due to their construction).

Regards,
Kai

[Rick]

So Tim , are you now enlightened ?

[zamboanga]

Originally Posted by Rick

I doubt the blade is that old ; post 30's or much later .
The details at the base of the blade are kris-like but basically look like hacksaw cuts .
I've never seen a Moro blade that has detailing like this .
Possibly this blade is made after the Moro style .

Now a Moro tourist blade has some slight resemblance .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../20cdetail.jpg
Still it looks like a Moro blade .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ad/20cfull.jpg

The first picture is a classic tourist item. Made out of galvanized iron (G.I.) pipe split open using acetylene torch. Why G.I. pipe? it's cheap and easier to etch those lines on. A finished piece like this is sold at the local (Zamboanga) market for about $20-40.

[zelbone]

....just call it a sundang to be safe

[slovak]

Dear all,

In my opinion that is surely a Moro Kris. Made in abundance since early 1900's up to today. Moro kris usually has a low quality metal and the blade simply by hammering any steel into a blade. Perhaps their pande lacks the skill to make a real keris. Some however have fancy dresses to make it look valuable. To me, a real keris must incorporate real skill to make it valuable not just from a piece of hammered scrap metal. Unfortunately western collectors had some obsession on this type of kris made popular among themselves to help the poor pandes of the Philiphines. Perhaps it’s their desperation for a living drives them to do such things.

Originally Posted by zelbone

....just call it a sundang to be safe

Zelbone,

Some people call this type of keris a Sundang. It is the same thing, just a difference in terms of language. You can study other languages in the keris nations to have a better understanding. Sometimes having too little knowledge and so much to talk about can be a dangerous thing.

[Spunjer]

Dear all,

In my opinion that is surely a Moro Kris. Made in abundance since early 1900's up to today. Moro kris usually has a low quality metal and the blade simply by hammering any steel into a blade. Perhaps their pande lacks the skill to make a real keris. Some however have fancy dresses to make it look valuable. To me, a real keris must incorporate real skill to make it valuable not just from a piece of hammered scrap metal. Unfortunately western collectors had some obsession on this type of kris made popular among themselves to help the poor pandes of the Philiphines. Perhaps it’s their desperation for a living drives them to do such things.

would love to know your source on this...

Zelbone,

Some people call this type of keris a Sundang. It is the same thing, just a difference in terms of language. You can study other languages in the keris nations to have a better understanding. Sometimes having too little knowledge and so much to talk about can be a dangerous thing.

ouch! easy there, big boy, lol. me think you should get to know the person first before making statements like that...

[slovak]

Hi Laban Tayo,

Yes, it is the same keris, kris, kalis and sundang. Then why does Mr. Zelbone suggested that it should be called a Sundang? Is it because of its inferior quality? Does the so called "Moro Kris" term is for the 'better' (if any) ones? Perhaps our honourable Mr. Zelbone has the answer.

[Spunjer]

lol, let the trolling begin...

Some philiphines migrated to other countries to be karaoke singer just to make a living. Perhaps one of them can make the glorious "moro kris". Its not hard, u have to have a furnance, some left over steel, hammer, chicel and grinder to make the luks. U can examine the kerisses on your cupboard and see.

*walks to the cupboard and inspect my 'kerisses'...*

yup, you're right; i do see the 'chicel' marks on it. now where did i place my karaoke mic?

[LabanTayo]

Originally Posted by slovak

Zelbone,

Some people call this type of keris a Sundang. It is the same thing, just a difference in terms of language. You can study other languages in the keris nations to have a better understanding. Sometimes having too little knowledge and so much to talk about can be a dangerous thing.

Slovak,
If that is your educated opinion, then why are you spelling it "keris" ?????
We are talking about a Filipino sword, not a Malay/Indo keris. Considering the language they use in the Moroland, shouldn't it be "kris, kalis or sundang"?

Or should we just call it "bolo or talibong"??