FAMOUS WEAPONS WITH PROVENANCE

[VANDOO]

IT OCCURED TO ME A POST ON FAMOUS WEAPONS WOULD BE INTERESTING. SOME OF THESE WEAPONS ARE NO DOUBT IN VARIOUS MUSEUMS WITH GOOD PROVENANCE OTHERS MAY STILL BE IN THE FAMILIES.
SOME WEAPONS ONLY EXHIST IN LEGEND SUCH AS EXCALIBER BUT MANY WERE JUST LOST. THE SWORD OF JOAN OF ARK FOR INSTANCE, IS THERE SWORD OR ARMOR THAT IS REPUTED TO HAVE BEEN HERS SOMEWHERE?
ALEXANDER THE GREAT'S WEAPONS, GENGIS KHAN AND MANY OTHERS THRUOUT HISTORY WHAT OF THIER WEAPONS?
AMERICA IS A YOUNG COUNTRY BUT EVEN HERE WE HAVE PROBLEMS IDENTIFYING WEAPONS WITH GOOD PROVENANCE. THERE ARE MANY EXAMPLES OF DAVID BOWIES BOWIE KNIFE AS WELL AS MANY EXAMPLES OF GUNS OWNED BY FAMOUS OUTLAWS AND LAWMEN BUT GOOD PROVENANCE IS OFTEN DIFFICULT TO COME BY.
PERHAPS SOME MEMBERS HAVE DONE RESEARCH IN SOME OF THESE AREAS AND CAN ADD INFORMATION AND PERHAPS PICTURES OF SUCH ITEMS WITH OR WITHOUT PROVENANCE. IT SHOULD MAKE AN INTERESTING TOPIC.

JUST TO GET THE BALL ROLLING HERE IS A PAINTING DONE IN 1485 IT IS AN ARTISTS INTERPRETATION OF THE ONLY ORIGINAL PAINTING DONE OF HER, UNFORTUNATELY THE ORIGINAL DID NOT SURVIVE. THIS WOULD LIKELY BE THE CLOSEST DEPICTION OF HER STILL SURVIVING.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely outstanding topic Barry! Much as every weapon has its stories to tell, there are many weapons which are attributed to famous persons or events, and often the research which supports these claims is fascinating.
However, it is certain to be mentioned that in many cases, the claims are disputed and have typically remained tangled in folkore and revisionist material.
Regarding Joan of Arc, I recall articles and research of years ago where it was thought her armor had been discovered, unsure of her sword but great tales about it which were in articles also or at least theories on it.

Referring to JIM Bowies fabled knife, 'the Iron Mistress', it wherabouts are unknown, but probably lost as a souvenier to a Mexican soldier and now gone. Obviously there are examples claimed to be the actual knife, one with the strongest claim at a museum in Little Rock I believe.
Davy Crockett is historically shown fighting to the end using his trusty flintlock 'Old Betsy" as a club.....it is now believed he actually survived bbut was summarily executed. As for Old Betsey or either of his other trusty flintlocks, they stayed behind and it is unclear what gun he was using at the Alamo.

Moving to gunfighters guns, fascinating myths! The most prevalent was of gunfighters notching thier guns with thier victories, not so. None of the guns that are provenanced to any of these characters show any such embellishments, and actually Bat Masterson probably perpetuated this when he would buy Colts and notch them to hawk to wide eyed thrill seekers.

The Buntline Special, the foot long barrel Colt presented to Wyatt Earp by pulp writer Ned Buntline (with four others to Masterson and other noteworthies) is a western mystery. It is known that he did not regularly carry it, nor did he use it at the OK corral (he used a Smith & Wesson, which was often even more popular than the Colt in many cases). It is believed that he lost it overboard in Alaska off the coast on a ship.

I hope others will join in, I know I have been obsessed with these kinds of researches as long as I can remember, so cant help rambling about them.

All the best,
Jim

[VANDOO]

ANOTHER INTERESTING SWORD WITH MUCH CONFLICTING HISTORY IS THE SWORD OF WILLIAM WALLACE ( BRAVEHEART). WIKIPEDIA HAD SOME INFORMATION BUT THE BEST I FOUND WAS IN ANOTHER FORUM I WAS NOT AWARE OF "NETSWORD". THE SWORD IN QUESTION IS IN THE NATIONAL WALLACE MONUMENT IN STERLING AND IS 5 FOOT 6 INCHES LONG AND WEIGHS 6 POUNDS OR 2.72KG.
THE HISTORY OF THE SWORD EVEN AFTER WALLACE WAS EXECUTED IN 1305 IS A COMPLEX AND INTERESTING ONE ENVOLVING KINGS AND THIEVES WHO STOLE IT TWICE. WALLACE WAS SAID TO HAVE COVERED THE HILT, SCABBARD AND BELT WITH THE SKIN OF ONE OF THE ENGLISH COMMANDERS AT THE BATTLE OF STERLING BRIDGE. IN 1505 KING JAMES 1V OF SCOTLAND HAD THE SWORD REHILTED AND A NEW SCABBARD MADE. LATER A MUSEUM HAD THE 1505 HILT REMOVED AND REPLACED WITH AN OLDER ONE. THE BLADE APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN MADE OR REPAIRED IN 3 PIECES AND HAS NO MAKERS MARKS OR FULLER WHICH ADDS TO THE CONFUSION. IT WOULD CERTIANLY HAVE TAKEN A LARGE MAN TO WIELD IT WELL AND WALLACE WAS SAID TO BE OVER 6 FEET AND UP TO 9 FEET TALL IN LEGEND.
HERE IS A LINK TO THE ARTICLE WITH MANY GOOD PICTURES
http://netsword.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000080.html

[fernando]

This one exists and is real, but the owner was not the pretended one... still a Portuguese King, although three centuries later (1438-1481).
The sword is now in exhibition at the Oporto Military Museum.

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[Pukka Bundook]

Good morning Jim and all!

Re notched guns, etc;
The only one I know about,( and need to look up the details again!)
was a plains rifle supposedly belonging at one time to Joe Meek.
It was a full-stocked "Hawken" type, with (If I remember right) a 36" barrel.
The top of the barrel was inscribed in German something to the effect of , "For the protection of German Immigrants" (In German of course.)

On the right side of the trigger -guard there were three marks filed. These could reflect three deer, or whatever, or possibly three hostiles.
I believe that "J Meek" was scratched rather crudely into the stock, but don't remeber where.
This gun was described in Harold Pederson's book, "The Great Guns"


Vandoo,
The Walace sword is almost certainly much later, but it can be well understood that the museum wanted A sword to display!........and it would have to appear somewhat special.....(!)

Fernando,

The sword you show is very high quality.
Thank you for the photo. I had not seen that one before.

Richard.

[karloj]

Hello

I don't know how many revolvers Al owned, but this is one of them.

Al Capone revolver sells for £67,250 at auction

http://newslite.tv/2011/06/24/al-cap...or-6.html#more

Maybe not so famous gun, but certainly a famous ex-owner.

Jussi


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[Royston]

I was at the Wallis and Wallis auction house in Southern England in the early 90's when they sold Bob Ford's gun. It was claimed that this was used to shoot Jessie James. There was a lot of controversy about the ownership and the auction was almost cancelled but it eventually went ahead. The gun was sold for about £100,000.
When the hammer fell a number of collectors and dealers in the room began firing toy "cap" guns into the air much to the amusement of the rest of us.

I have no photos from the day but there are details on the web for anyone interested.

Regards
Roy

[fernando]

Ceremonial two hand sword (montante) attributed to Vasco da Gama, the Portuguese navigator who found the maritime route to the East (India) in 1498.

Length 175 cm. Dated beg. XV century.

(Lisbon Military Museum)


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[kronckew]

hauswehr attributed to martin luther,
Staatliche Kunstsammlungen Dresden

[fernando]

Sword attributed do Pedro Alvares Cabral.
... a Portuguese nobleman, military commander, navigator and explorer regarded as the discoverer of Brazil in 1500.
Originally sacked from a tomb in the church of da Graça, city of Santarem. After being wandering out there for a while, was first acquired by a well known family, then passed on to two distinct private collections and, in the sixties, ended in Rainer Daehnhardt collection, where is kept in a mahogany+acrylic+glass vitrine, in a manner that it may be observed by all angles without having to be handled.
There are only five of these swords known and referenced, which model is depicted in the São Vicente panels.
(Use full resolution, for better detail)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lagos40_kopie.jpg
Its condition is rather bad but, due to its maximum importance, the owner never attempted and doesn't intend to restore it. The blade is broken in two parts and the tip is missing 4-5 cms. Its present length is 78 cms.

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[fernando]

Sword of Portuguese King Dom João I (1385-1433).
Images kindly provided for this purpose by Ensign Officer Ana Soares - Lisbon Military Museum.

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