Question for Jambiya & Khanjar lovers

Kubur · 3rd April 2016, 10:31 AM

Hi,

This jambiya was sold recently in America.
The scabbard is clearly from the 19th c.

I have a question about Yemeni jambiyas and Omani khanjars:

do we know when the shappes of the different models appeared?

Most of the types on the market are post 1900.
So I was just wondering if these models existed before the 1800 or if they appeared during the 19th c. (eg. the royal saidi khanjar)...

Thanks to all the jambiya specialists
Kubur

harrywagner · 3rd April 2016, 01:11 PM

Good question Kubur. I have been wondering about that myself. I am far from an expert, but can't resist adding my two cents worth. I think the basic style has evolved slowly over time (except for the Royal Khanjar), making age determination a challenge.

I have several Jambiya that have been vetted as early 20th, including one that I think may be much older. They differ only slightly in appearance until you examine the blade. Then the difference is striking. The knife I am referring to is a Zabidi style ( http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20476 ). I have shared photos of it with several people who I consider experts and they all concluded it was early 20th. The blade appears to be the result of a primitive forging technique. None of the other early 20th Jambiya I have handled have a blade anything like this.

I assert that the basic style was a slow evolution and that the blade is the key to identifying the older ones. I am often wrong though so take that for what it is worth!

Harry

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd April 2016, 04:15 PM

Salaams All, Very little was written down in the past about things like dates of Khanjars and historical facts etc ...few people could read or write. In 1970 the entire country came out of the dark ages where it had languished for 100 years following the involvement of Oman in Zanzibar / East Africa and its withdrawal which can be seen as massively disruptive and following the tragic death of Said Sultan ...Said the Great. r 1804-1856.

For centuries the only way that historical facts and traditions was passed down from parents to children was in the Funun ...a series of pageants re enacted through music, poetry, dance and acting similar to pantomime but far more complex. What is interesting to Forum are the sword and khanjar Genres contained in Funun traditional dance.

I note that in India the Khanjar is mentioned in the Metmuseum notes as having appeared sometime in the 16th Century...but in India. It would seem logical that some design transition spread from Persia to India...In Oman it seems to be that the dagger was a skinning and cutting knife for butchering animals game etc and developed earlier as a personal defensive weapon. It is said that one of the wives of Said the Great...her name was Sheherazad designed a number of items for her husband...One was the Royal Hilt to which the Muscat Scabbard was paired with...though it should be remembered that she only redesigned the Hilt.....It appears that this happened before the general move to Zanzibar in about 1830/1835...thus it can be estimated that the Hilt appeared in that bracket...around 1830/35. No other dates are available....She is attributed with the Royal Hilt design that also found its way onto the Iconic Sayf Yamaani but only a select few. Also from the same stable the Royal Camerbund and head dress. The date can only be vague since this particular lady left the Royal Household and returned to Persia apparently with a lover and before the move to Zanzibar proper ! All we can guestimate is that all over Oman regional styles developed gradually over the years though many centres can make the style of other areas and that close similarities exist between UAE and Omani variants and that some copying may be apparent in the Asir and perhaps other areas close to Oman but affected by trade shipping etc.
The Omani Khanjar is still made today in exactly the same way it was 100 years ago. Designs are protected in Omani law so that a new form or type cannot be made here... it must be one of the original designs.

The key Omani Government site is at http://khanjar.om/home.html where you will hardly find a single definitive date ... You may get added detail from my thread on The Omani Khanjar on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=omani+khanjar

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Kubur · 3rd April 2016, 11:11 PM

Dear Ibrahim,

Thank you as always for your precise and very informative comments on Omani daggers.

Hi Harry,

You will find here an interesting thread about a 17th c. jambiya
http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ish+expedition
also commented in Elgood

My question is not really about the shape of the blade but more about the different styles and models in Yemen.
There is such a varity, it's really impressing and I cannot believe that they all appeared during the 19th c.

Best,
Kubur

estcrh · 4th April 2016, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I note that in India the Khanjar is mentioned in the Metmuseum notes as having appeared sometime in the 16th Century...but in India.

Ibrahiim, in the Met notes were they discussing the jambiya that is sometimes referred to as "khanjar" or the recurved dagger that is also known as "khanjar", I know that the Met has a problem with their descriptions. Most jambiya are labled as such but one or more are described as khanjar, then there is the recurved dagger that is also labeled as khanjar.

Here are the met searches for khanjar and jambiya.

Khanjar
http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...der=asc&page=1

Jambiya
http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...der=asc&page=1

Below is one example, this jambiya is listed as a "khanjar" in the met search for khanjar and the title description says it is a khanjar but in the more detailed description it is described as a "jambiya".

This particular jambiya has been discussed here before, I just noticed that some new information has been added to its description.

Quote:

A traditional jambiya Arab dagger, this example commemorates a Turk’s pilgrimage to Mecca. Inscriptions on the scabbard give the name of the owner and the city of manufacture, Medina, another pilgrimage site, while those on the blade include verses of poetry and the name of the maker, Izzet. The storage case, made in Turkey, bears the calligraphic cipher (tugra) of the Ottoman sultan Abdülhamid II (r. 1876–1909).

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 4th April 2016, 07:54 AM

Salaams Kubur and Estcrh. I really have to stretch to find references on detail for dates on Omani Khanjars and the appearance of the term in other regions though I did dig up a Met Museum reference. It is, however, almost too vague to include which I think makes the point in particular about Omani work; In the case of Saudia because of the important Mecca situation it also attracted a lot of artisans ... Magnificent pieces were made to order by prestigious clients in what almost amounts to a Royal Quality workshops situation. In Oman this didn't happen for two reasons... It didnt have such a centre where Royal quality artisans were focused and producing a vastly expensive gold and encrusted Khanjar wasn't the done thing in a country where austerity in these artifacts tended to be prevalent.. On these fabulous commissioned pieces I think we need to be cautious since these are not representative of daggers worn locally though of course they are gem encrusted, hugely expensive artifacts illustrating a degree of form but not altogether representative of tribal weapons.

The route to and from Mecca became the equivalent of a super highway for pilgrimages and trade linking important Souks in and around Arabia and beyond.

Regarding when a Khanjar evolved to what it is now is just about impossible and the only dated form that I can be sure of is the Royal Khanjar ...and even that is only approximate at around 1830. I think the slow evolution of style and technique rolled out over a few hundred years from perhaps the early 1600s til the mid to late 18th/19th C....and what is seen now being produced are the old designs done in the exact same way using the same old tools.

Notwithstanding the pilgrim routes and Souk links what put the brakes on design transfer was the difficulty in movement across inaccessible desert and mountains ...Oman almost had no roads until after 1970! For this reason you will see my references indicating influence through camel caravans and seagoing trade.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

3rd April 2016, 10:31 AM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Question for Jambiya & Khanjar lovers Hi, This jambiya was sold recently in America. The scabbard is clearly from the 19th c. I have a question about Yemeni jambiyas and Omani khanjars: do we know when the shappes of the different models appeared? Most of the types on the market are post 1900. So I was just wondering if these models existed before the 1800 or if they appeared during the 19th c. (eg. the royal saidi khanjar)... Thanks to all the jambiya specialists Kubur Attached Images

3rd April 2016, 04:15 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All, Very little was written down in the past about things like dates of Khanjars and historical facts etc ...few people could read or write. In 1970 the entire country came out of the dark ages where it had languished for 100 years following the involvement of Oman in Zanzibar / East Africa and its withdrawal which can be seen as massively disruptive and following the tragic death of Said Sultan ...Said the Great. r 1804-1856. For centuries the only way that historical facts and traditions was passed down from parents to children was in the Funun ...a series of pageants re enacted through music, poetry, dance and acting similar to pantomime but far more complex. What is interesting to Forum are the sword and khanjar Genres contained in Funun traditional dance. I note that in India the Khanjar is mentioned in the Metmuseum notes as having appeared sometime in the 16th Century...but in India. It would seem logical that some design transition spread from Persia to India...In Oman it seems to be that the dagger was a skinning and cutting knife for butchering animals game etc and developed earlier as a personal defensive weapon. It is said that one of the wives of Said the Great...her name was Sheherazad designed a number of items for her husband...One was the Royal Hilt to which the Muscat Scabbard was paired with...though it should be remembered that she only redesigned the Hilt.....It appears that this happened before the general move to Zanzibar in about 1830/1835...thus it can be estimated that the Hilt appeared in that bracket...around 1830/35. No other dates are available....She is attributed with the Royal Hilt design that also found its way onto the Iconic Sayf Yamaani but only a select few. Also from the same stable the Royal Camerbund and head dress. The date can only be vague since this particular lady left the Royal Household and returned to Persia apparently with a lover and before the move to Zanzibar proper ! All we can guestimate is that all over Oman regional styles developed gradually over the years though many centres can make the style of other areas and that close similarities exist between UAE and Omani variants and that some copying may be apparent in the Asir and perhaps other areas close to Oman but affected by trade shipping etc. The Omani Khanjar is still made today in exactly the same way it was 100 years ago. Designs are protected in Omani law so that a new form or type cannot be made here... it must be one of the original designs. The key Omani Government site is at http://khanjar.om/home.html where you will hardly find a single definitive date ... You may get added detail from my thread on The Omani Khanjar on http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=omani+khanjar Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 3rd April 2016 at 04:29 PM.

3rd April 2016, 01:11 PM	#2
harrywagner Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 373	Good question Kubur. I have been wondering about that myself. I am far from an expert, but can't resist adding my two cents worth. I think the basic style has evolved slowly over time (except for the Royal Khanjar), making age determination a challenge. I have several Jambiya that have been vetted as early 20th, including one that I think may be much older. They differ only slightly in appearance until you examine the blade. Then the difference is striking. The knife I am referring to is a Zabidi style ( http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20476 ). I have shared photos of it with several people who I consider experts and they all concluded it was early 20th. The blade appears to be the result of a primitive forging technique. None of the other early 20th Jambiya I have handled have a blade anything like this. I assert that the basic style was a slow evolution and that the blade is the key to identifying the older ones. I am often wrong though so take that for what it is worth! Harry

3rd April 2016, 11:11 PM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Dear Ibrahim, Thank you as always for your precise and very informative comments on Omani daggers. Hi Harry, You will find here an interesting thread about a 17th c. jambiya http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ish+expedition also commented in Elgood My question is not really about the shape of the blade but more about the different styles and models in Yemen. There is such a varity, it's really impressing and I cannot believe that they all appeared during the 19th c. Best, Kubur

4th April 2016, 07:54 AM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Kubur and Estcrh. I really have to stretch to find references on detail for dates on Omani Khanjars and the appearance of the term in other regions though I did dig up a Met Museum reference. It is, however, almost too vague to include which I think makes the point in particular about Omani work; In the case of Saudia because of the important Mecca situation it also attracted a lot of artisans ... Magnificent pieces were made to order by prestigious clients in what almost amounts to a Royal Quality workshops situation. In Oman this didn't happen for two reasons... It didnt have such a centre where Royal quality artisans were focused and producing a vastly expensive gold and encrusted Khanjar wasn't the done thing in a country where austerity in these artifacts tended to be prevalent.. On these fabulous commissioned pieces I think we need to be cautious since these are not representative of daggers worn locally though of course they are gem encrusted, hugely expensive artifacts illustrating a degree of form but not altogether representative of tribal weapons. The route to and from Mecca became the equivalent of a super highway for pilgrimages and trade linking important Souks in and around Arabia and beyond. Regarding when a Khanjar evolved to what it is now is just about impossible and the only dated form that I can be sure of is the Royal Khanjar ...and even that is only approximate at around 1830. I think the slow evolution of style and technique rolled out over a few hundred years from perhaps the early 1600s til the mid to late 18th/19th C....and what is seen now being produced are the old designs done in the exact same way using the same old tools. Notwithstanding the pilgrim routes and Souk links what put the brakes on design transfer was the difficulty in movement across inaccessible desert and mountains ...Oman almost had no roads until after 1970! For this reason you will see my references indicating influence through camel caravans and seagoing trade. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.