Help Identify this Sword

[Tom]

First, hope I put this in the right section.

I know nothing about swords so I'm just guessing here as to what this sword is.

The history of the sword is;
About 40 or more years ago my father came home with this wet muddy sword and pommel (?)
He washed it off with a water hose and wiped down, it was in remarkable shape under the Pocomoke river mud.

He (my father) had found this sword in the black sticky mud at a very low tide on the banks of the Pocomoke river.

I have searched the www and I can't find anything on it, a friend found a similar picture but not exact, he then referred me to this site.

the markings on the sword are as follow:
on the blade is a design then initials?
<<<((( D.O. S.R. )))>>> not those designs of course, that's a layout of how it's etched (?) those initials and design look to be raised.

then up close to the handle (?) on the upper end of the blade is a oval shape with the following letter engraved around the oval.
FR. NEEEF SOHNE SOLINGER

this is the oval with the above words
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...MVC-016S-4.jpg
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...MVC-014S-3.jpg

both sides of this tip look the same
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...MVC-011S-5.jpg

this is where the initials with the design on each end of the initials lay on the blade
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...MVC-009S-5.jpg

the number 77 stamped in here

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...MVC-008S-4.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...MVC-007S-6.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...MVC-006S-8.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...VC-005S-11.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...MVC-002S-9.jpg

[kisak]

Most likely a ceremonial 19th century sword for some orden (Freemasons for example).

[Jim McDougall]

As Kisak has observed, this sword appears to be a fraternal type sword of the 19th century. Actually I have discussed this sword with Tom in some degree already, and asked him to post it here as I would like to initiate some interest in this very esoteric area of collecting.

The sword hilt itself is of the general form that seems to have derived from military swords of the Civil War, in this case, the U.S. M1840 NCO sword, which had nearly identical hilt with knights head pommel, same style crossguard and fluted ivory grips. The Ames Sword co., who produced these, went into the production of the fraternal and Masonic style swords that developed from them in the years after the war. In addition to the well established Masonic groups and fraternal groups, there were many post military regimental organizations and patriotic groups.

In a phone conversation today with Mr. Joe Marino, one of the authors of the comprehensive book "The American Fraternal Sword" (2008), we discussed this particular acronym, which does not correspond to any of the known groups catalogued thus far. In years of research, he and his co-authors compiled the collections and data that reflect the amazing numbers of these types of groups.
It is known that outfitting companies and producers of regalia interchanged these almost universal hilt components, sich as the knights head pommel, crossguard and so on. The blades were often imported, such as this Solingen blade from latter 19th c.

It would seem that the most likely means of discovering the title of the group indicated by this acronym, D.O.S.R. may come from research in local history of the area where this was found. Perhaps this was a preliminary title for a group later known under another title. As suggestions for the words, possibly something like democratic order of the sons of the revolution or to that effect. There seem to have been many similar titles.

One of the key producers of fraternal type swords was the Frank Henderson Co. of Kalamazoo, Michigan from 1850-through 1893, when they began working with the Ames Co. This illustrates the possibility of using Ames components from the militia and non commissioned officers swords.

While these swords have often been considerably disregarded as they are clearly ceremonial and costume elements rather than weapons, they have developed a distinct sector of thier own in collecting with their fascinating associations in Americana. One of the foremost authorities on Americana, Mr. Norm Flayderman, wrote the foreward in Mr. Marino's book, probably one of the most stellar endorsements for anyone studying this field.

We'll continue researching!!!


Welcome to our forum Tom! and thank you for posting this!!

All very best regards,
Jim

[Jeff D]

Hi All, its been awhile ,

I can't add much to what Jim has already printed, but, its not a one off. Here is another in better shape.

http://flintlocksarsenal.blogspot.com/2008/09/dosr.html

I would be looking for a possible German-American Organization?

I hope this helps
Jeff

[Jim McDougall]

WOW! Hey Jeff, there you are, I thought the UFO's got ya!!!!

Tom, I told ya, these guys are good!!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Jeff D]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

WOW! Hey Jeff, there you are, I thought the UFO's got ya!!!!

Hi Jim, worse than UFO's.... work . Could be worse though. I did a quick google and think this may help. I think it is a German American group in Columbus Ohio ? Note the Gothic DOSR. Hopefully this will get Tom started.

All the Best
Jeff

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

WOW! Hey Jeff, there you are, I thought the UFO's got ya!!!!

Tom, I told ya, these guys are good!!!!

All the best,
Jim

Yes, very good, I have searched the net over and I never found anything close.
Even with the info provided which I greatly appreciate, I still am lost, sorry, I'm just a dumb'ol country boy searching and not really knowing what to search for.
so far we know the sword is a 19th century sword, correct?

Will it ever be possible to know how this sword ended up in the mud of my home town of Pocomoke's river?
How it may have made it's way here. etc.
Was it dropped from Jeff's UFO? LOL J/K

Thanks Guys this is fascinating to me