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#1 |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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I thought I knew the London collections quite well, but know I tend to visit the same pieces and ignore the fields that dont necessarily interest me. So, I had never been to the African galleries in the basement of the BM. I happened down there today, in search of an answer to a friends question, and stumbled across a 16thC sword from the Kingdom of Konga. Severe Potuguese/Spanish influence (or even heritage, as the blade seems very European). Its hidden far behind glass, and is annoyingly displayed in front of patterned textiles, which confuses my digital camera.
But, it is definately very old and a sword with substantial presence. From its form and look, and have little doubt that the age attribution is correct. Is anyone familiar with this sword, or ones like it from the same period in Africa? The description card doesnt mention any provenance, and from the accession number, I think it a relatively recent aquisition. It just mentions the Portuguese in the Konga during this period. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
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Hi Brian, is something like this?
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#3 |
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Well done Flavio!
That is the sword! What information do you have on it? I did take images, but havent had a chance to take the pictures off the camera. The images will be very poor due to glass and very dim lighting, but will post them anyway. Is that Springs book? I have it at home, but dont know it enough to recognise an image from it. As his 'home' is the BM, I figure he would have something to say about the sword. |
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#4 |
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Location: Italia
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Hello Brian, no this is Ijzerwerk van centraal-afrika (H. Westerdijk). This sword is from Congo tribe (tribe that is located near the congo-zaire river and the first that the Europen met when they "touched" the now a days Congo shores). For what I know these swords are 19th century old but for sure they copied the Portuguese older swords (see also this thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4369) and they are more currencies than real weapons, but for sure there must be some older exemples that were the precedents of those that we can see today and that were real weapons
![]() ![]() Edit: If I understand well (If the translator is correct ![]() ![]() ![]() Last edited by Flavio; 25th April 2007 at 04:22 PM. |
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#5 |
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Hi Flavio,
It isnt my field, but I am pretty sure this is the real thing, and not 19thC. I couldnt get close to it, but it had all the asthetics of an old sword. I think I will have to post the images later on, and maybe also get Marc and Fernando involved. |
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#6 |
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Location: What is still UK
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Some more from "Armes traditionnelles d'Afrique" Found around Congo and Angola. As mentioned based on old swords but not that old in themselves.
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#7 |
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Very sorry for the delay.
Looking at it now, I have doubts of the 16thC attribution, due to the crude fullers. Look forward to other opinions. |
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#8 |
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Location: Madrid / Barcelona
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Thanks for the pics, Brian.
The blade sure doesn't look european, 16th c. or else. If these were indeed produced since that time onwards in Africa, it could be from any date since then. Funny... I wonder how many of the swords of that type presently labelled as "portugese" are in fact African... Fernando, that bit of data about the portugese sailors making these swords for their personal use to explain their crudeness... ¿where it comes from? It would be good to have a reference for its origin. |
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#9 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
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Location: Portugal
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Hi Marc
Are you referring to my quotation of page 170-171 of "Homens e Espadas e Tomates", which i am worried for you having not yet received your copy ? It says there that, at the arsenals built in the African Coast ( and not only ) swords could be restored by Portuguese swordsmiths and other "handy" blacksmiths. Blades were imported "by the bundle", from either Spain (toledanas ?) or Europe, and mounted or remounted locally. If on one hand these colonial swords looked quite inferior, compared to those originally made in Portugal, on the other, could be confused with those made by the local African artisans, as both could have similar resource for the blades. Naturally the African hilts were more crude than those of the Portuguese soldiers, but differences could sometimes be subtle for a non expert. Dahehnardt told me personnaly that the differences could reside in the tang fixing and pommel dimensions. Obviously sometimes things were not so extreme, and the difference was obvious. He writes ( not in this book ) that the Africans also mounted these swords with local blades. Another reference is that the Portuguese only practised this exercise during the XV-XVI century. And almost the totality of these swords have practically disappeared. You will see an original of these colonial swords in page 64 of the same book, with a marked german blade of the XVI century. Do i see on the pommel and blade fullers an "inspiration" to the specimen pictured by Brian of the British Museum ? ![]() Certainly the massive quantity that can bee found out there are copies of the thing. But those can be old and valuable, too. I have an auction catalogue with a Muslim specimen, probably from Guinea, with all parts of the set dating from the XVI-XVII century ... with the guards in the colhona style. See also item 5 of Antonio's exhibition, with a german blade marked Abraham Stam. http://www.arscives.com/cejunior/portarmour/005.htm Eventually i can see the same blade mark in a British catalogue picture of a beautyfull nimcha, but dated XVIII century. So Brian ... and Marc, to my absolutely unexperienced eye, the BM sword is probably African, judging by its hilt, rather than for the crudeness of the blade. Don't pay much attention to what i say, but i find this piece quite old. Not necessarily from the XVI century, but also not XIX or the like. Sorry for the "dry up". fernando Last edited by fernando; 4th May 2007 at 09:38 PM. |
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#10 |
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Here is another one, but not Portugese this time.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...6251&rd=1&rd=1 |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Belgium
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I just want to show you another example I recently obtained, "bought in Kinshasa in the 70ties". Probably a copy of a Portuguese XVI Century sword? Hilt is made of ivory.
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#12 |
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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I've just searched the B.M. online database using the keywords Congo Sword, and there is an entry for it. The sword was only acquired by them in 1995 so strictly speaking the label should say "pre-1995", with maybe something added saying that the curators think it could be 16th Century.
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#13 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
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Yes, it follows the same line ... except for the face on the grip
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