Man with a dha ?

RhysMichael · 8th October 2006, 08:22 PM

It looks like a dha to me. It is only attributed to the 19th century and "asian" by the Smithsonian. Let me know if you all also think this is Thai

Bancha Thongkomol · 9th October 2006, 06:57 AM

Burma

PUFF · 9th October 2006, 07:18 AM

From the dressing and the text, I would say Burma too.

RhysMichael · 9th October 2006, 11:41 AM

Thanks to you both

Andrew · 9th October 2006, 01:28 PM

Very interesting stuff. The text looks arabic to me. If it is, could one of our members translate it for us?

Any comments on the sword itself, guys? If presented by itself, I'd say it looked Siamese.

PUFF · 9th October 2006, 01:57 PM

Oh, you are right. The text is more like Arabic

not burmese one.

I agree with you that the blade has long upwarding hilt with small round pommel. They are somewhat similar to Siam's. But many dressing components (skirt, chinese shoes) just not right.

RhysMichael · 10th October 2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Any comments on the sword itself, guys? If presented by itself, I'd say it looked Siamese.

I was thinking the sword looked Siamese also Andrew. But I had no idea on the outfit

Andrew · 10th October 2006, 03:39 PM

Bump.

Anyone care to take a stab at translating the text?

S.Al-Anizi · 10th October 2006, 04:09 PM

Im sure that this is not arabic, as there are no arabic letters with triple dots beneath them. This is most likely farsi.

Andrew · 10th October 2006, 04:32 PM

Thanks, Saqr.

S.Al-Anizi · 10th October 2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Thanks, Saqr.

Always welcome, Andrew

FenrisWolf · 16th March 2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Bump.

Anyone care to take a stab at translating the text?

Isn't that from Cole Porter? "Oh, you beautiful Dha, You great big beautiful Dha!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist, the Pun fairy bit me....

Andrew · 16th March 2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FenrisWolf

Isn't that from Cole Porter? "Oh, you beautiful Dha, You great big beautiful Dha!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist, the Pun fairy bit me....

lol

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 4th April 2007, 07:18 PM

Eight Men in Indian and Burmese Costume, 19th century
India (Delhi)
Opaque watercolor, ink, and gold on paper; 10 x 15 1/2 in. (25.4 x 39.4 cm)
Gift of Dr. Julius Hoffman, 1909 (09.227.1)

Courtesy of the The Metropolitan Museum of Art.

The middle three are wearing Burmese clothes but are painted with 'Indian' looking faces . Does anyone notice the extreme similarity between the middle chap and the original picture we've been discussing : clothes and dha . Almost carbon copy perhaps ( who copied who ? )

Also I wonder if these were actually posed or from memory as the uniform is mismatched . During the monarchy there were strict rules about dress code. They are all wearing the incorrect head gear : the middle chap's hat should rightly belong on the head of the chap to his Lt ( our Rt ) . He should be wearing a military helmet as should the other chap .

Mark · 4th April 2007, 09:32 PM

Very interesting. Perhaps the artist was going by a set of costumes themselves, rather than painting actual people posed wearing them. That could account for the mis-matched head gear. It really could almost be the same dha the middle man is holding.

~Alaung_Hpaya~ · 31st July 2007, 02:16 PM

Dha at Ashoka Arts

I think we all seem to be agreed that the dha looks Thai but the man is Burmese . What do you guys think about the provenance of this sword which does look remarkably similar to the one in the picture . Interestingly I think it was initially advertised as a Thai darb.

Andrew · 31st July 2007, 02:34 PM

I think the Ashoka sword is Thai. The handle/blade ratio, blade shape and engraving and handle decoration scream Thai to me. Perhaps Stefan will comment.

Ian · 1st August 2007, 07:02 AM

Agree with the sentiments that Stefan has a Thai sword on his site at that URL. The pictures of men in Burmese attire carrying similar style swords are inconclusive with respect to the origins of this style of sword. We know that imitation of styles among the various Burmese and Thai groups was common. Morevoer, "artistic license" may be in play here, with the artist having little understanding of the swords attributable to the various ethnic and national groups (although I think that is unlikely for an indigenous artist -- whereas a foreign artist could easily make such a mistake, especially if painting in his studio remote from the areas of interest).

The long handle to blade lengths are certainly typical of some Thai swords, notably among those in the north of the country and extending into mountainous areas of what is now Laos and Vietnam. Long handled swords are also said to have been used by the Thai cavalry in the 18th and 19th C.

I know of no reliably documented Burmese sword that has this extreme handle length. I would like to be corrected on these views by our resident Burmese and Thai nationals if they have evidence to the contrary.

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Alaung_Hpaya~

Dha at Ashoka Arts

I think we all seem to be agreed that the dha looks Thai but the man is Burmese . What do you guys think about the provenance of this sword which does look remarkably similar to the one in the picture . Interestingly I think it was initially advertised as a Thai darb.

8th October 2006, 08:22 PM	#1
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Man with a dha ? It looks like a dha to me. It is only attributed to the 19th century and "asian" by the Smithsonian. Let me know if you all also think this is Thai

31st July 2007, 02:16 PM	#16
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	Dha at Ashoka Arts I think we all seem to be agreed that the dha looks Thai but the man is Burmese . What do you guys think about the provenance of this sword which does look remarkably similar to the one in the picture . Interestingly I think it was initially advertised as a Thai darb. Last edited by ~Alaung_Hpaya~; 31st July 2007 at 02:37 PM.

9th October 2006, 06:57 AM	#2
Bancha Thongkomol Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 16	Burma

9th October 2006, 07:18 AM	#3
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	From the dressing and the text, I would say Burma too.

9th October 2006, 11:41 AM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Thanks to you both

9th October 2006, 01:28 PM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Very interesting stuff. The text looks arabic to me. If it is, could one of our members translate it for us? Any comments on the sword itself, guys? If presented by itself, I'd say it looked Siamese.

9th October 2006, 01:57 PM	#6
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	Oh, you are right. The text is more like Arabic not burmese one. I agree with you that the blade has long upwarding hilt with small round pommel. They are somewhat similar to Siam's. But many dressing components (skirt, chinese shoes) just not right.

10th October 2006, 03:39 PM	#8
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Bump. Anyone care to take a stab at translating the text?

10th October 2006, 04:09 PM	#9
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Im sure that this is not arabic, as there are no arabic letters with triple dots beneath them. This is most likely farsi.

10th October 2006, 04:32 PM	#10
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Thanks, Saqr.

4th April 2007, 07:18 PM	#14
~Alaung_Hpaya~ Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 65	Eight Men in Indian and Burmese Costume, 19th century India (Delhi) Opaque watercolor, ink, and gold on paper; 10 x 15 1/2 in. (25.4 x 39.4 cm) Gift of Dr. Julius Hoffman, 1909 (09.227.1) Courtesy of the The Metropolitan Museum of Art. The middle three are wearing Burmese clothes but are painted with 'Indian' looking faces . Does anyone notice the extreme similarity between the middle chap and the original picture we've been discussing : clothes and dha . Almost carbon copy perhaps ( who copied who ? ) Also I wonder if these were actually posed or from memory as the uniform is mismatched . During the monarchy there were strict rules about dress code. They are all wearing the incorrect head gear : the middle chap's hat should rightly belong on the head of the chap to his Lt ( our Rt ) . He should be wearing a military helmet as should the other chap .

4th April 2007, 09:32 PM	#15
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Very interesting. Perhaps the artist was going by a set of costumes themselves, rather than painting actual people posed wearing them. That could account for the mis-matched head gear. It really could almost be the same dha the middle man is holding.

31st July 2007, 02:34 PM	#17
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I think the Ashoka sword is Thai. The handle/blade ratio, blade shape and engraving and handle decoration scream Thai to me. Perhaps Stefan will comment.