Javanese keris for comment

[Tatyana Dianova]

I bought this keris on Kassel Arms Show last November and try now to find out everything I can about it. The only obvious thing seems to be its origin (Java) and general type of Pamor (Miring). I would like to know more details about its blade and fittings, and also, maybe, its age. To me it looks quite old because the blade surface is very uneven and in reality looks like covered with thick hairs (the pictures do not show it very well). Thanks in advance.

[ronpakis]

Congratulations,
You have bought yourself a very nice central javanese keris, Surakarta region i think. The pamor is also called rongenduru and to some dutch authors very high in ranking. it is absolutly very very good. The whole keris is complete, probably late 19th century. Some authors would rate this as a kratonkeris. This means that it is worn by royal or high ranking persons. Im curious how the blade fits its sheath?
The mendak is probably gilded. The pendok (metal oversheath) could be some kind of alloy, i cant tell what kind.

[Jan]

The exact origin of the fittings confuses me a bit - the sheath is a gayaman surakarta, but the handle looks Yogya style to me. Not really the most common combination. So at least one of these might have been changed once after production and first fittings.

[nechesh]

I would agree with Jan. The ukiran is definitely Yogyakarta while the wrongko is Surakarta. I would be interested in seeing a top shot to see how well the blade fits the sheath. The ukiran is a fine example, with pieced areas and well carved cecekan. Could be 19thC or early 20thC. Nice ricikan and well controlled pamor. I would stop short at saying this keris was worn by royalty (dressed a bit plain for that) or a high ranking kraton official without any provenance to that case, but all and all a very nice keris.

[rasdan]

Just to add, i think the pamor is blarak ngirid rather than ron genduru.

[nechesh]

That was my first impression as well Rasdan.

[ronpakis]

Originally Posted by rasdan

Just to add, i think the pamor is blarak ngirid rather than ron genduru.

After looking into the literature i agree with you about the pamor. Any ideas about the material of the pendok?

[Tatyana Dianova]

Thank you all very much for your input! I am glad that this subject have provoked such an interesting discussion. Now I would like to clear some points mentioned after I have looked closer on the Keris:
1. The mendak really looks like it was covered with some kind of let's say old and weared off gold, if you judge from the look, but not much of it left and it doesn't look bright.
2. The sheath probably belonged to the other blade before, because it was fitted with the pieces of wood in the corners, but this wood looks also quite old.
3. The etching is not as strong as it looks on most pictures - I have enhanced them all digitally. In reality it looks like the right picture in the first row, but even more subdued and not blueish but brownish. For the example of the picture directly from the camera look below.
4. There seems to be a steelcore, at least it is visible at some places on the cuttting edge of the blade (you can also see it on the pictures).
5. I was not able to see any chiesel marks anywhere on the blade, also no such marks on the tikel alis and pejetan. The surface there is exactly the same as anywhere else: each nickel layer is much higher then iron layer between them and also sharp, the surface looks like a very coarse and deep file and is a hell to care for. I would like to say that it is not possible to have unseen chiesel marks on such kind of surface. The so called steelcore is also looks pitted and quite old.
6. The outer ridges of the sogokan and tikel alis are also not so sharp as they look on the pictures.
Hope it clears something. Anyway, the keris can still be a new one that was very skillfully made looking old. It was NOT sold to me by dealer as an old, precious, expensive, kraton keris; it is just a keris whose looks I liked and then wanted to know more about it.
I live also in Germany (Chemnitz) and can show the keris in person.

[BluErf]

Thanks to Empu Kumis for the pointers.

Well, maybe we should give the Madura smiths a little break. At least they are working on improving their keris-making craft... short-cuts or not. And while I hope that would not be the way it goes, but these Madurese smiths may be one of the few last 'bastion' of keris-making. Hopefully out of the chafe, a few of these smiths will rise to be nearly as good as the smiths and empus of old. But 1st they must visit more museums and read more books with pictures of good old kerises...

[ronpakis]

Well, id know it wasn't to old (late 19th) but newly made?? They are getting really good out there. I must say i find it more easy to see that ria's keris is newly made than the other one. Too bad, old blades with this kind of pamor are not easy to find and are not made for the average man. thanks e.k.

[Battara]

On the dress, I would agree with Rick and even suggest that it may be simple brass with less copper in it. Polished brass looks lighter in color than one would think. Nice assessment Rick. Thank you Empu for your observations.

[capt.smash]

I realy like both these blades ....i feel that age isnt that importabt as long as the quality and character are there.

[Adni Aljunied]

Just to share as a comparison, a recently made keris by Empu Jeno Harumbrodjo.

[nechesh]

That is sweet! Empu Djeno is one on the last true empus left. I don't know enough to know if he has been training his sons or anyone. He is getting on and years and won't be with us forever. Let us hope he passes his skill and knowledge on.

[BluErf]

Ok, since we are talking about Madura Muda pieces, here's one more. They have their attractions, but the main problem with them is that they do not conform totally to traditions. Its like a hotch-potch keris pulling together bits and pieces from various origins and putting it together. Its like a stitched-together chimera. I suppose that puts off collectors with a more traditionalist preference. This piece for example, has a dapur with Solo origins (I believe), a Madurese gayaman sheath which was not originally made for it, but refitted well enough. The mendak is not Madurese in style, for sure. The ukiran is Madurese, and with some age, but this style is most commonly found on Madurese or E Javanese ladrang sheaths. There you have it -- the cons, but then, take a step back and look at the keris for what it is.

I think the present-day Madura smiths had been concentrating on pamor in the past. Only recently have they put in more efforts into the dapur. But still, their kerises have the 'stiff' look. Also, because time and money features heavily in their production, 'shortcuts' are taken, and they show, like pamor lines that can go broken half-way through the blade. With a traditionally-made keris, I believe this would not happen. And because time spent is limited, the smith does not have time to comtemplate the really minute details and lines that makes the keris truly graceful. But I think they are slowly picking it up. Who knows, maybe they are reading this forum right now and taking down all that we are saying.

[tom hyle]

There's still too much English in the posts; they can't understand them yet.....

[empu kumis]

Hi Kerislovers,

yeah, the pictures becomming better and better. Thanks to Ria and Blue i like to see that, here you still can differentiate between the iron and pamorlayers. Both pamor are well executed and the surface is not etched to much. Only about 18 layers. with nice contrast and no pamorfree patches. Its a pamor of the order nginden and the name of this pamor PB X. The lower part just above the sor-soran seems to me to small and the greneng are not nice. But anyway if somebody collecting new Kerisses on this standard i`m happy. Please go on. The garapan is also much better but there is still a lot to improve.

Blues keris is nice but also not perfect ( to my experience i always say under 10,000 blades, there is one good blade and i can just sorry for my high standards) i always say there is blade with sheet seems to me very high and the tlamaan (aereal of connection between ganja and blade) is bend in the wrong direction. The outer lis of the tikel alis should not meet with the tampingan and the janur should be more bended. The lambe gajah ahd the jalen is nice too but the buntut and greneng to wide. The sogokan could bee better. The bangkekan is ok but the waduk of the blade is to close to the point. The wrangka seems nice but i would prefer a pendok. The wrangka seems to be new but nice and the handle ? old ?.

The Madurese pande`s has a long break of almost 20 years and its really time their quality improves.

Several month or weeks ago there has been a Megantaro close to this style.

But i`m not sure who made them. Somebody remember ?
Has somebody seen the work of Sukoyo from Surabaya ?

For some time i haven`t been in Madura but i see it will be important to go there again. My next voyage will be soon (hopefully !) and i will have stopover in Singapore wether incoming or on the way back Europe. So i hope to see you in Singapore. For sure I wiil give you a notice by email.

Probably the blade attributed to Ki Jeno is not made by himself but from his pupils. Ki Jeno has already given over to his adopted son. But its not a masterpiece because of the proportions of the blades lenght and ganja. To me the gandik is to short and the buntut to long. But most disturbing are the pamorfree pachtes on the sor-soran and on the wilah. Overall i would say i can`t feel the personalty of this blade. He don`t speak to me.

About the pudak sategal normally sticking two thorns out of the sharpnes and to my knowledge if they look like yours (picture keris Malaysia) has the name pudak sategal bungkem, so far i remember. Lis-lisan is the frame between the landep and the kruwingan. Between you have the gusen. In your picture the pudak sategal and the lis-lisan are connected just where the sor-soran is ending.

Empu Kumis

[nechesh]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

There's still too much English in the posts; they can't understand them yet.....

LOL! Well, that made me spit my coffee!
Haven't you received your English/Keris dictionary yet?
Be patient, i'm sure THEY will send you one.