MOST DESIRED WAR CLUBS MID AND SOUTH AMERICA

VANDOO · 9th September 2016, 04:24 PM

THIS WILL BE DIFFICULT TO PUT TOGETHER AS MY REFERENCES ARE VERY LIMITED. I WILL LINK SOME OF THE EXCELLENT POSTS ON THE SUBJECT HERE TO START THE REFERENCE AND ADD TO IT AS NEW MATERIAL BECOMES AVAILABLE. EVERYONE FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE REFERENCE AND TO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES I MAY MAKE.

I WILL START WITH TWO UNKNOWN (TO ME) AMAZON CLUBS.
PICTURES #1., #2., & #3. SMALL AMAZON CLUB 36 CM. MADE OF HEAVY RED PAU WOOD WITH DECORATIVE FIBERS AND TASSELS. INSET WITH WICKED SPINES FROM AN ARMORED CATFISH FOUND IN THE AMAZON THE ONE ON THE TIP BROKEN. NOTE IT HAS A FACE CARVED ON THE BUTT OF THE CLUB. GOOD PATINA AND AGE FROM AN OLD GERMAN COLLECTION.
#4., #5., & #6. 25.5 INCHES LARGE VERY HEAVY CLUB INSET WITH SEVERAL OF THE SAME CATFISH SPINES, THE ONE ON THE POINT BROKEN OFF. GOOD OLD PATINA PAU WOOD ALSO HAS THE FACE CARVED ON THE BUTT. FIBER ON GRIP. THESE TWO CLUBS ARE INTERESTING IN THAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO THRUST AS WELL AS STRIKE YOUR OPPONENT AND BOTH STABBING SPIKES ARE BROKEN.
#7. MEGALODARAS URANOSCOPUS CATFISH, AMAZON, TAXIDERMY NOTE SPINES. THESE FISH ARE LARGE ENOUGH TO MAKE A MEAL BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE EATEN. I HAVE SOME NECKLACE MADE OF THEIR SPINES AS WELL AS THE CLUBS. A NET FULL IF THESE CATFISH WOULD BE A DANGEROUS AND PRICKLY SITUATION.
#8., #9.,& #10 A GOOD VERY HEAVY CLUB POSSIBLY AMAZON JUDGING FROM THE WOOD BUT NOT SURE. 40 INCHES LONG.IT APPEARS TO BE HEAVILY PATINATED PAU WOOD UNDER MAGNIFICATION.
#11. & #12. SIMILAR MARKINGS ON A CLUB TIM HAD 53.5 CM. OR 21.4 INCHES LONG, NOT SURE OF ITS ORIGINS EITHER DON'T KNOW THE TYPE WOOD OR WEIGHT.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12963

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=AMAZON

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=AMAZON

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=AMAZON

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=AMAZON

Tim Simmons · 9th September 2016, 04:37 PM

Like those very much. Imagine the fun try to remove the broken spine from your flesh, if you survived the fight that is.

VANDOO · 11th September 2016, 08:11 PM

THE CLOSEST I COULD COME TO THE DARK, HEAVY, REDDISH HARDWOOD USED IN MANY AMAZONIAN CLUBS IS CALLED PAU-FERRO OR MORADO. IT DOES HAVE VARIATION IN COLOR MOSTLY DUE TO HOW FRESH IT IS AND VARIOUS AMOUNTS OF PATINA BUT NO DOUBT VARIES FROM TREE TO TREE AND BOARD TO BOARD. IF WE CAN COME UP WITH A CLEAR IDENTIFICATION OF THE WOOD IT WILL ELIMINATE MISTAKES OF CLUB IDENTIFICATION BETWEEN SOUTH PACIFIC, AFRICAN AND SOUTH AMERICAN ITEMS.
#8. # 9, #10 ABOVE POST ,MY LARGE HEAVY CLUB APPEARS TO BE PAU WOOD SO I THINK ITS SOUTH AMERICAN.
#11 & #12 . ABOVE POST. TIM'S EXAMPLE HAS LINES SIMILAR TO MINE AND IF IT IS PAU WOOD IS LIKELY SOUTH AMERICAN AS WELL. I HAVE NOT HANDLED IT SO CAN'T MAKE FURTHER GUESSES.

I WILL PICTURE ANOTHER OF TIM'S CLUBS THAT HAS SIMILAR DESIGNS FOR COMPARISON.

PICTURES #1. TWO AMAZON NECKLACES ONE WITH A CAYMAN HEAD AND ANOTHER WITH TWO CATFISH SPINES.
#2. & #3. TIM'S CLUB MAY BE PAU WOOD AND HAS INTERESTING DESIGNS. BUT HAS WHITE INLAY AND WHAT LOOKS LIKE YELLOW ORCHID FIBER WRAP WHICH IS MORE SOUTH PACIFIC ISLANDS ESPECIALLY AROUND NEW GUINEA.
UNFORTUNATELY I CAN ONLY GUESS AS I AM NO EXPERT ON EXOTIC WOOD AND HAVE ONLY PICTURES CONJECTURE AND GUESSES TO GO ON THE OTHER CLUBS.

#4., #5., & #6. A WELL CARVED MEXICAN FOLK ART CLUB BASED ON AN OLD CLUB FORM ( SEE THE PICTURE OF THE PLAIN BACK). CIRCA EARLY 1950'S, DOESN'T FIT ANYWHERE ELSE SO I PUT IT HERE

THERE IS A LOT OF INTEREST IN THE MACUAHUCTL A.K.A. MAQUAHUCTL A FORM OR WOODEN CLUB WITH OBSIDIAN BLADES INSET ALONG THE EDGES FORMING A TWO EDGED WEAPON. THEY ARE THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN AROUND 3 FEET LONG AND THEIR USE WAS THOUGHT TO BE WIDESPREAD IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA. THERE IS ONLY A DRAWING OF ONE ORIGINAL CLUB SURVIVING AS THE CLUB WAS DESTROYED BY FIRE IN 1884. IT WAS IN THE COLLECTION OF THE ROYAL MUSEUM IN MADRID SPAIN. THE DRAWING OF THE CLUB WAS DONE IN THE 19TH. CENTURY BY ACHILLE JUBINAL.
#4. JUBINAL' S DRAWING. THE CLUB WAS 84 CM. LONG, THE CUTTING EDGE 57 CM. AND THE HANDLE 26 CM. BLADES WERE GLUED IN A GROVE DOWN THE SIDES WITH NATURAL ADHESIVE.
THE ONLY OTHER DRAWINGS ARE THE MANY ON POTTERY AND STONE CARVINGS OF WARS AND WARRIORS. THERE ARE MANY INTERESTING DRAWINGS BEING MADE AS WELL AS MANY REPLICAS OF THE MACUAHUCTL BOTH HOLDING TO OLD FORMS OR TO FANTASY AND IMAGINATION.
#5., #6., #7., #8. & #9. DRAWINGS OF VARIOUS WARRIORS IN FULL GEAR WITH MACUAHUCTL
#10. A REPLICA OF A SHIELD AND MACUAHUCTL
#11. & #12. REPLICA 39 INCHES LONG, AZTEC DESIGNS

VANDOO · 11th September 2016, 09:48 PM

VARIOUS EXAMPLES OF MODERN MACUAHUCTL.
#1. CEREMONIAL UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADES, PAU WOOD, BLACK OBSIDIAN
#2. AZTEC WITH SKULL DECORATION
#4., TWO MOUNTED CROSSED
#3., #5 & #6. CENTRAL MEXICO 36 IN. LONG,BOCOTE WOOD AND MAHOGANY OBSIDIAN BLADES AN ESPECIALLY ATTRACTIVE EXAMPLE.
#7 THRU #10 VARIOUS NICE REPLICAS
#11. A SAWFISH FORM REPLICA, WOOD AND BONE
#12. REPLICA WITH NICE SNAKE FORM DESIGN

VANDOO · 11th September 2016, 10:32 PM

THE LAST OF THE MAQUAHUCTLS

#1. A VERY SPIKEY MODERN FORM
#2. & #3. A FORM OF SPEAR/CLUB WITH OBSIDIAN BLADES
#4.ONE WITH COPPER BLADES NONE WERE KNOWN, BUT COPPER WAS USED FOR JEWELRY AND OTHER USES
#5.THIS HAS FLINT KNIVES FORMING A LONG BLADE COULD BE A LONG KNIFE FOR BUTCHERING LARGE ANIMALS A CEREMONIAL FORM OR A WEAPON OR JUST FANTASY. NOT A MACUAHUCTL BUT SIMILAR AND THEY COULD HAVE BEEN MADE

Tim Simmons · 12th September 2016, 04:46 PM

sadly I did not record the source of this photo

poolman · 27th October 2019, 07:45 AM

i have been researching some old bones that I found in a box in my father's things. he was a chemist in a bauxite mine in the jungle of then british Guiana. for years I had no idea what they were. now, thanks to vandoo, I now know. they are the bones of a freshwater catfish called anadoras regani. while looking at an old post of his I recognized something similar and it sent me on the quest to finding out what I had been seeking. wish you were still around to thank. thanks again vandoo wherever you are......

Battara · 27th October 2019, 05:54 PM

I'm so glad you were able to identify your items. Would you post those please? Vandoo was a good guy with lots of knowledge and experience. He passed on a few years ago. He is sorely missed.

9th September 2016, 04:24 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MOST DESIRED WAR CLUBS MID AND SOUTH AMERICA THIS WILL BE DIFFICULT TO PUT TOGETHER AS MY REFERENCES ARE VERY LIMITED. I WILL LINK SOME OF THE EXCELLENT POSTS ON THE SUBJECT HERE TO START THE REFERENCE AND ADD TO IT AS NEW MATERIAL BECOMES AVAILABLE. EVERYONE FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THE REFERENCE AND TO CORRECT ANY MISTAKES I MAY MAKE. I WILL START WITH TWO UNKNOWN (TO ME) AMAZON CLUBS. PICTURES #1., #2., & #3. SMALL AMAZON CLUB 36 CM. MADE OF HEAVY RED PAU WOOD WITH DECORATIVE FIBERS AND TASSELS. INSET WITH WICKED SPINES FROM AN ARMORED CATFISH FOUND IN THE AMAZON THE ONE ON THE TIP BROKEN. NOTE IT HAS A FACE CARVED ON THE BUTT OF THE CLUB. GOOD PATINA AND AGE FROM AN OLD GERMAN COLLECTION. #4., #5., & #6. 25.5 INCHES LARGE VERY HEAVY CLUB INSET WITH SEVERAL OF THE SAME CATFISH SPINES, THE ONE ON THE POINT BROKEN OFF. GOOD OLD PATINA PAU WOOD ALSO HAS THE FACE CARVED ON THE BUTT. FIBER ON GRIP. THESE TWO CLUBS ARE INTERESTING IN THAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO THRUST AS WELL AS STRIKE YOUR OPPONENT AND BOTH STABBING SPIKES ARE BROKEN. #7. MEGALODARAS URANOSCOPUS CATFISH, AMAZON, TAXIDERMY NOTE SPINES. THESE FISH ARE LARGE ENOUGH TO MAKE A MEAL BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE EATEN. I HAVE SOME NECKLACE MADE OF THEIR SPINES AS WELL AS THE CLUBS. A NET FULL IF THESE CATFISH WOULD BE A DANGEROUS AND PRICKLY SITUATION. #8., #9.,& #10 A GOOD VERY HEAVY CLUB POSSIBLY AMAZON JUDGING FROM THE WOOD BUT NOT SURE. 40 INCHES LONG.IT APPEARS TO BE HEAVILY PATINATED PAU WOOD UNDER MAGNIFICATION. #11. & #12. SIMILAR MARKINGS ON A CLUB TIM HAD 53.5 CM. OR 21.4 INCHES LONG, NOT SURE OF ITS ORIGINS EITHER DON'T KNOW THE TYPE WOOD OR WEIGHT. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12963 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=AMAZON http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=AMAZON http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=AMAZON http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=AMAZON Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 9th September 2016 at 08:48 PM.

9th September 2016, 04:37 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Like those very much. Imagine the fun try to remove the broken spine from your flesh, if you survived the fight that is.

11th September 2016, 08:11 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE CLOSEST I COULD COME TO THE DARK, HEAVY, REDDISH HARDWOOD USED IN MANY AMAZONIAN CLUBS IS CALLED PAU-FERRO OR MORADO. IT DOES HAVE VARIATION IN COLOR MOSTLY DUE TO HOW FRESH IT IS AND VARIOUS AMOUNTS OF PATINA BUT NO DOUBT VARIES FROM TREE TO TREE AND BOARD TO BOARD. IF WE CAN COME UP WITH A CLEAR IDENTIFICATION OF THE WOOD IT WILL ELIMINATE MISTAKES OF CLUB IDENTIFICATION BETWEEN SOUTH PACIFIC, AFRICAN AND SOUTH AMERICAN ITEMS. #8. # 9, #10 ABOVE POST ,MY LARGE HEAVY CLUB APPEARS TO BE PAU WOOD SO I THINK ITS SOUTH AMERICAN. #11 & #12 . ABOVE POST. TIM'S EXAMPLE HAS LINES SIMILAR TO MINE AND IF IT IS PAU WOOD IS LIKELY SOUTH AMERICAN AS WELL. I HAVE NOT HANDLED IT SO CAN'T MAKE FURTHER GUESSES. I WILL PICTURE ANOTHER OF TIM'S CLUBS THAT HAS SIMILAR DESIGNS FOR COMPARISON. PICTURES #1. TWO AMAZON NECKLACES ONE WITH A CAYMAN HEAD AND ANOTHER WITH TWO CATFISH SPINES. #2. & #3. TIM'S CLUB MAY BE PAU WOOD AND HAS INTERESTING DESIGNS. BUT HAS WHITE INLAY AND WHAT LOOKS LIKE YELLOW ORCHID FIBER WRAP WHICH IS MORE SOUTH PACIFIC ISLANDS ESPECIALLY AROUND NEW GUINEA. UNFORTUNATELY I CAN ONLY GUESS AS I AM NO EXPERT ON EXOTIC WOOD AND HAVE ONLY PICTURES CONJECTURE AND GUESSES TO GO ON THE OTHER CLUBS. #4., #5., & #6. A WELL CARVED MEXICAN FOLK ART CLUB BASED ON AN OLD CLUB FORM ( SEE THE PICTURE OF THE PLAIN BACK). CIRCA EARLY 1950'S, DOESN'T FIT ANYWHERE ELSE SO I PUT IT HERE THERE IS A LOT OF INTEREST IN THE MACUAHUCTL A.K.A. MAQUAHUCTL A FORM OR WOODEN CLUB WITH OBSIDIAN BLADES INSET ALONG THE EDGES FORMING A TWO EDGED WEAPON. THEY ARE THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN AROUND 3 FEET LONG AND THEIR USE WAS THOUGHT TO BE WIDESPREAD IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA. THERE IS ONLY A DRAWING OF ONE ORIGINAL CLUB SURVIVING AS THE CLUB WAS DESTROYED BY FIRE IN 1884. IT WAS IN THE COLLECTION OF THE ROYAL MUSEUM IN MADRID SPAIN. THE DRAWING OF THE CLUB WAS DONE IN THE 19TH. CENTURY BY ACHILLE JUBINAL. #4. JUBINAL' S DRAWING. THE CLUB WAS 84 CM. LONG, THE CUTTING EDGE 57 CM. AND THE HANDLE 26 CM. BLADES WERE GLUED IN A GROVE DOWN THE SIDES WITH NATURAL ADHESIVE. THE ONLY OTHER DRAWINGS ARE THE MANY ON POTTERY AND STONE CARVINGS OF WARS AND WARRIORS. THERE ARE MANY INTERESTING DRAWINGS BEING MADE AS WELL AS MANY REPLICAS OF THE MACUAHUCTL BOTH HOLDING TO OLD FORMS OR TO FANTASY AND IMAGINATION. #5., #6., #7., #8. & #9. DRAWINGS OF VARIOUS WARRIORS IN FULL GEAR WITH MACUAHUCTL #10. A REPLICA OF A SHIELD AND MACUAHUCTL #11. & #12. REPLICA 39 INCHES LONG, AZTEC DESIGNS Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 11th September 2016 at 09:08 PM.

11th September 2016, 09:48 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VARIOUS EXAMPLES OF MODERN MACUAHUCTL. #1. CEREMONIAL UNUSUAL FORM OF BLADES, PAU WOOD, BLACK OBSIDIAN #2. AZTEC WITH SKULL DECORATION #4., TWO MOUNTED CROSSED #3., #5 & #6. CENTRAL MEXICO 36 IN. LONG,BOCOTE WOOD AND MAHOGANY OBSIDIAN BLADES AN ESPECIALLY ATTRACTIVE EXAMPLE. #7 THRU #10 VARIOUS NICE REPLICAS #11. A SAWFISH FORM REPLICA, WOOD AND BONE #12. REPLICA WITH NICE SNAKE FORM DESIGN Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 12th September 2016 at 05:31 PM.

11th September 2016, 10:32 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE LAST OF THE MAQUAHUCTLS #1. A VERY SPIKEY MODERN FORM #2. & #3. A FORM OF SPEAR/CLUB WITH OBSIDIAN BLADES #4.ONE WITH COPPER BLADES NONE WERE KNOWN, BUT COPPER WAS USED FOR JEWELRY AND OTHER USES #5.THIS HAS FLINT KNIVES FORMING A LONG BLADE COULD BE A LONG KNIFE FOR BUTCHERING LARGE ANIMALS A CEREMONIAL FORM OR A WEAPON OR JUST FANTASY. NOT A MACUAHUCTL BUT SIMILAR AND THEY COULD HAVE BEEN MADE Attached Images

12th September 2016, 04:46 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	sadly I did not record the source of this photo Attached Images

27th October 2019, 07:45 AM	#7
poolman Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 1	thank you vandoo i have been researching some old bones that I found in a box in my father's things. he was a chemist in a bauxite mine in the jungle of then british Guiana. for years I had no idea what they were. now, thanks to vandoo, I now know. they are the bones of a freshwater catfish called anadoras regani. while looking at an old post of his I recognized something similar and it sent me on the quest to finding out what I had been seeking. wish you were still around to thank. thanks again vandoo wherever you are......

27th October 2019, 05:54 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	I'm so glad you were able to identify your items. Would you post those please? Vandoo was a good guy with lots of knowledge and experience. He passed on a few years ago. He is sorely missed.