Mystery Dagger???

David · 3rd July 2016, 05:47 PM

A friend of mine recently asked be about this dagger, which he thought was from the South Pacific. It looks more African to me, but not quite and i just don't know. The blade is ferric as it attracts a magnet. Any ideas out there?

Rick · 3rd July 2016, 06:05 PM

It looks like a recycled spearhead and the spear part doesn't say 'Africa' when I look at it.
I'll bet that there are two cultures represented here, possibly even American folk art for the hilt.

Better pictures....etc.

David · 3rd July 2016, 06:33 PM

Well, it's not mine Rick, so these are the best photos i have. I do think that a mixed cultural thing is possible. The hilt does seem to have a good patina so this does appear to have a bit of age to it. The wrap looks more recent, bit the rest looks pre-WWII to me.

David · 4th July 2016, 04:24 PM

Any other ideas or comments on origin from anyone i could take back to my friend?

mariusgmioc · 4th July 2016, 05:04 PM

Hello David,

As I am no expert, I refrained myself from making any comments, but the moment I saw this "dagger" I thought that it looks like a spear tip with a handle attached.

fernando · 4th July 2016, 05:54 PM

Highly plausible

.

colin henshaw · 4th July 2016, 06:41 PM

Probably a red herring, but the carved head is a bit like Inuit work and the twine binding is the sort of thing a sailor might do. Maybe a hunter/trapper's weapon, or a whaler's ??

kahnjar1 · 4th July 2016, 08:29 PM

I have absolutely no idea about this , but from the pics it LOOKS as if the guy is wearing a peaked cap, but without a side view it is hard to tell.......
Stu

ariel · 5th July 2016, 04:56 AM

I have the same impression. Weren't there similar handles from Luzon?

DaveA · 5th July 2016, 08:51 PM

The figure on the hilt resembles carvings of "Bulul", the rice God of the Ifugao tribe on Luzon. These sometimes ornament Ifugao daggers. I have not seen this particular hilt style used by Ifugao, with the wrapping.

Maybe this is a lead for you. Good luck, and please post any new information you find!

Dave A

David · 5th July 2016, 11:19 PM

So i hear a few votes for Luzon, at least on the hilt. Can anyone point to a Luzon spear head of similar form? I'm just trying to pin this down to a particular region for my friend.
The wrapping could have been added at anytime and certainly seems like the youngest addition to the ensemble.

Ian · 12th July 2016, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I have absolutely no idea about this , but from the pics it LOOKS as if the guy is wearing a peaked cap, but without a side view it is hard to tell.......
Stu

Stu:

That is a very astute observation and I think you are correct. This rang a bell for me. I now think that the hilt is indeed northern Luzon in origin -- not Ifugao, but rather Ilocano. There is a style of Ilocano knife featuring a Filipino with a peaked cap, presumably military. Such pommels can be found in brass, horn, or wood--the horn ones often have small white inserts for the eyes. There should be pictures on this site. I have several examples but they are all packed as a result of a recent move across country.

Some Ilocano knives are double edged daggers, but I agree that this one looks as though it could have started life as a spear. The wrapped hilt does look recent to me also.

Jose, do you have a picture of one of these Ilocano hilts that you could post?

Ian.

P.S. In a previous post, these caps were thought to be nautical in origin. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=418

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th July 2016, 06:26 AM

Please Note~ ... the kinnallogong or hat dance (Ilocano)

colin henshaw · 13th July 2016, 06:53 AM

How about these two carved Inuit figures (in ivory) ? Note the similarity to the style of the heads...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th July 2016, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

How about these two carved Inuit figures (in ivory) ? Note the similarity to the style of the heads...

Nice one Colin !

3rd July 2016, 05:47 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	Mystery Dagger??? A friend of mine recently asked be about this dagger, which he thought was from the South Pacific. It looks more African to me, but not quite and i just don't know. The blade is ferric as it attracts a magnet. Any ideas out there? Attached Images

5th July 2016, 08:51 PM	#10
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Bulul figure? The figure on the hilt resembles carvings of "Bulul", the rice God of the Ifugao tribe on Luzon. These sometimes ornament Ifugao daggers. I have not seen this particular hilt style used by Ifugao, with the wrapping. Maybe this is a lead for you. Good luck, and please post any new information you find! Dave A

13th July 2016, 06:53 AM	#14
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	How about these two carved Inuit figures (in ivory) ? Note the similarity to the style of the heads... Attached Images

3rd July 2016, 06:05 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	It looks like a recycled spearhead and the spear part doesn't say 'Africa' when I look at it. I'll bet that there are two cultures represented here, possibly even American folk art for the hilt. Better pictures....etc.

3rd July 2016, 06:33 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	Well, it's not mine Rick, so these are the best photos i have. I do think that a mixed cultural thing is possible. The hilt does seem to have a good patina so this does appear to have a bit of age to it. The wrap looks more recent, bit the rest looks pre-WWII to me.

4th July 2016, 04:24 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	Any other ideas or comments on origin from anyone i could take back to my friend?

4th July 2016, 05:04 PM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Hello David, As I am no expert, I refrained myself from making any comments, but the moment I saw this "dagger" I thought that it looks like a spear tip with a handle attached.

4th July 2016, 05:54 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Highly plausible .

4th July 2016, 06:41 PM	#7
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Probably a red herring, but the carved head is a bit like Inuit work and the twine binding is the sort of thing a sailor might do. Maybe a hunter/trapper's weapon, or a whaler's ??

4th July 2016, 08:29 PM	#8
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	I have absolutely no idea about this , but from the pics it LOOKS as if the guy is wearing a peaked cap, but without a side view it is hard to tell....... Stu

5th July 2016, 04:56 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have the same impression. Weren't there similar handles from Luzon?

5th July 2016, 11:19 PM	#11
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	So i hear a few votes for Luzon, at least on the hilt. Can anyone point to a Luzon spear head of similar form? I'm just trying to pin this down to a particular region for my friend. The wrapping could have been added at anytime and certainly seems like the youngest addition to the ensemble.

13th July 2016, 06:26 AM	#13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Please Note~ ... the kinnallogong or hat dance (Ilocano)