Unusual Quaddara

ariel · 7th July 2021, 03:24 PM

Need your help.
Recently, I won this Quaddara and am confused.

Traditionally, Quaddara is a short Persian sword/long kindjal with a typical " kindjal-like " handle.. According to Kirill Rivkin, it originated in Azerbadjan ( South Caucasus, a mostly Shia, but Turkish speaking region. From there it spread to the adjacent Iran, and was featured in Ashura. It was also used by local "police". All Quaddaras I know are straight-bladed, single-edged weapons.

This one is complete with original scabbard. Total length in scabbard 22.5"
Blade 15" x 1.3/4"

It is profusely decorated in gold/silver koftgari and has multiple inscriptions on the blade and the scabbard elements.
I will contact Kwiatek to help reading them and define the language.
The seller from Georgia bought it in Derbent, an ancient city belonging to the Arabs, Persian, Ottomans etc. but acquired by Russia in 1813 from Iran as a result of Treaty of Gulistan. Currently, it is a main city of the Daghestani province of the Russian Federation.

My questions:

1. Even though it is what is traditionally called a Quaddara, ( Iranian) , the blade is of yataghan construction and the fullers are very complex, reminiscent of Turkish ( Trabzon) Surmenes. Where would you put it?
2. There is a diffuse thin layer of rust affecting both the blade and the scabbard.. I am afraid to clean it for fear of losing the silver/gold decorations. I gently cleaned only the fullers ( no decorations in them), but left the rest untouched.
Anybody has an advice how to clean it gently without disturbing the koftgari?

My thanks for any and every piece of information.

ariel · 7th July 2021, 03:31 PM

Continued

Interested Party · 7th July 2021, 04:10 PM

Very nice. The diversity of this region never ceases to amaze me!

1) Ariel, I'm afraid I don't understand your question. Are you asking about a) conjecture on where the piece was manufactured/mounted or b) on the terminology of how to refer to this unique style?
a) I don't have the competence to narrow your search geographically. Sorry. Your pictures do not show a spine or edge view. Is it a full tang and exposed as is I believe standard for a quaddara? If so, is there a scarf joint visible on the tang? That would seem to be an indicator on where the blade was produced and if it was remounted later in its life. The heavy point. to me, would indicate an original purpose as a quadarra. It looks hefty, like it was originally a quaddara, is it? I noticed the suspension rings would have it in an upright rather than a cocked position. Is there leather on the scabbard? How is it sewn?
b) Quaddara seems appropriate or quaddara with a yataghan style blade. Are there yataghans with this fuller configuration?

2) In a post about a year ago I was advised to clean coins with petroleum jelly. I wonder how this would treat the koftgari? It is something I have been thinking about. I have been looking for appropriate pieces to test this and a vinegar clean on, but as of yet I haven't found the right subjects.

I look forward to hearing about the inscriptions on these pieces.

ariel · 7th July 2021, 05:06 PM

Sorry for being not specific enough
My question relates to the place of manufacture: is it Iranian or Turkish? The mix of styles is obvious.
Far, far behind there is the possibility of Daghestani manufacture , simply on the ground that it was recently acquired in Derbent. I fully understand that the likelihood of it is vanishingly low: definitely there are no actual examples of Daghestani weapons of that nature, and the item might have been traveling far and wide during its life.
I cannot see the area of transition between the blade and the tang: it is covered by the " bolster". The lateral sides of the tang are open; they are heavily patinated. I can find no evidence that the handle is anything but original. In fact, one side of it was cracked and repaired.
The spine of the blade has no decorations; instead there is a deep rounded channel ( fuller-like) going all the way along the length.

mariusgmioc · 7th July 2021, 08:16 PM

Very interesting piece.

I do not think there is any solution that would allow cleaning it without damaging the koftgari.

The less damaging might be to try to immerse the blade in Picreator's Metal De-corroder, but that might be risky as well.

ariel · 8th July 2021, 06:14 AM

How about just oiling it and gently go over it with a soft cloth?
Or Renaissance Wax it?

Dilemma: should I risk damaging it or should I allow it to rust itself to death?

7th July 2021, 03:24 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Unusual Quaddara Need your help. Recently, I won this Quaddara and am confused. Traditionally, Quaddara is a short Persian sword/long kindjal with a typical " kindjal-like " handle.. According to Kirill Rivkin, it originated in Azerbadjan ( South Caucasus, a mostly Shia, but Turkish speaking region. From there it spread to the adjacent Iran, and was featured in Ashura. It was also used by local "police". All Quaddaras I know are straight-bladed, single-edged weapons. This one is complete with original scabbard. Total length in scabbard 22.5" Blade 15" x 1.3/4" It is profusely decorated in gold/silver koftgari and has multiple inscriptions on the blade and the scabbard elements. I will contact Kwiatek to help reading them and define the language. The seller from Georgia bought it in Derbent, an ancient city belonging to the Arabs, Persian, Ottomans etc. but acquired by Russia in 1813 from Iran as a result of Treaty of Gulistan. Currently, it is a main city of the Daghestani province of the Russian Federation. My questions: 1. Even though it is what is traditionally called a Quaddara, ( Iranian) , the blade is of yataghan construction and the fullers are very complex, reminiscent of Turkish ( Trabzon) Surmenes. Where would you put it? 2. There is a diffuse thin layer of rust affecting both the blade and the scabbard.. I am afraid to clean it for fear of losing the silver/gold decorations. I gently cleaned only the fullers ( no decorations in them), but left the rest untouched. Anybody has an advice how to clean it gently without disturbing the koftgari? My thanks for any and every piece of information. Attached Images

7th July 2021, 03:31 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Quaddara ( cont) Continued Attached Images

7th July 2021, 04:10 PM	#3
Interested Party Member Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Eastern Sierra Posts: 465	Very nice. The diversity of this region never ceases to amaze me! 1) Ariel, I'm afraid I don't understand your question. Are you asking about a) conjecture on where the piece was manufactured/mounted or b) on the terminology of how to refer to this unique style? a) I don't have the competence to narrow your search geographically. Sorry. Your pictures do not show a spine or edge view. Is it a full tang and exposed as is I believe standard for a quaddara? If so, is there a scarf joint visible on the tang? That would seem to be an indicator on where the blade was produced and if it was remounted later in its life. The heavy point. to me, would indicate an original purpose as a quadarra. It looks hefty, like it was originally a quaddara, is it? I noticed the suspension rings would have it in an upright rather than a cocked position. Is there leather on the scabbard? How is it sewn? b) Quaddara seems appropriate or quaddara with a yataghan style blade. Are there yataghans with this fuller configuration? 2) In a post about a year ago I was advised to clean coins with petroleum jelly. I wonder how this would treat the koftgari? It is something I have been thinking about. I have been looking for appropriate pieces to test this and a vinegar clean on, but as of yet I haven't found the right subjects. I look forward to hearing about the inscriptions on these pieces.

7th July 2021, 05:06 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Sorry for being not specific enough My question relates to the place of manufacture: is it Iranian or Turkish? The mix of styles is obvious. Far, far behind there is the possibility of Daghestani manufacture , simply on the ground that it was recently acquired in Derbent. I fully understand that the likelihood of it is vanishingly low: definitely there are no actual examples of Daghestani weapons of that nature, and the item might have been traveling far and wide during its life. I cannot see the area of transition between the blade and the tang: it is covered by the " bolster". The lateral sides of the tang are open; they are heavily patinated. I can find no evidence that the handle is anything but original. In fact, one side of it was cracked and repaired. The spine of the blade has no decorations; instead there is a deep rounded channel ( fuller-like) going all the way along the length.

7th July 2021, 08:16 PM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Very interesting piece. I do not think there is any solution that would allow cleaning it without damaging the koftgari. The less damaging might be to try to immerse the blade in Picreator's Metal De-corroder, but that might be risky as well.

8th July 2021, 06:14 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	How about just oiling it and gently go over it with a soft cloth? Or Renaissance Wax it? Dilemma: should I risk damaging it or should I allow it to rust itself to death?