Arab percussion for comments

Mefidk · 22nd June 2012, 06:30 PM

Hi folks - been a bit quiet on the gun front so I thought I'd share my latest gun.

Barrel is 98cm long, 12mm bore, and is hexagonal at the base. The enlarged butt is covered with cloth and wrapped with pieces of animal skin (maybe shot with this gun!).

The lock was a nice surprise, which from the photos I was not sure if genuine or in what condition. The outside shows signs of age and the hammer of wear in the cup as a result of frequent use (and misses a retaining screw). The inside was perfect though once cleaned. Army stamps are clearly visible as are a number of other stamps on or near the individual parts (I believe these are referred to in cleaning instructions). The contractor that made the lock plate has his name inside (J. Francis). James Francis was a contractor for Enfield, and together with the form and date I'm assuming that the lock was originally on an P53 or P60 British army Enfield Rifle. Although I am not 100% certain.

I guess that the likelihood is that the lock moved to the arab gun at the end of the military rifle's life, perhaps 20 years later, perhaps putting this gun at around 1880-1900.

Tim Simmons · 24th June 2012, 06:30 PM

I do not know much about guns. I do know that British locks were widely traded. Perhaps the gun is as old as the lock? The only thing I can see that is latter is the white metal which is clearly replacements. Which to me suggests the gun is as old as the lock?

rickystl · 24th June 2012, 07:25 PM

Hi Mefidk. Nice looking old Arab gun. And, you have one with genuine British parts. Not only the lock, but the front lock screw, trigger guard (and rear sling swival), and ramrod appears to be from a M1853 Enfield. Can you post some additional photos? Especially the muzzle end and ramrod tip. Is the barrel rifled or smoothbore? I'm sure it just a coincidece, but the 98cm (39") barrel length is equal to the length of the M1853 Enfield rifle. But the standard Enfield rifle was a .577 caliber. However, the sharpshooter's rifle was about .45 caliber. From your photo, the front sight looks like it might be a filed down Enfield front sight? Again, more photos if you can. Thanks for posting!!! Wish I owned it.

Rick.

Mefidk · 24th June 2012, 08:15 PM

Thanks, Rick. I've attached a couple of extra pictures that I had handy. The barrell starts off round and becomes hexagonal from the middle towards the back, not damascus, and the muzzle bore is smooth. So not unfortunately an P53 barrel, and ramrod was locally made

but you are absolutely right about the trigger guard

- even though its been decorated its a perfect match for the Enfield ( I'll come clean here and admit that I had not noticed this even though I'm sitting with a 1956 3-band Enfield not more than 4 feet from my nose

)

Since the guard and lock at least are both from the British gun, I guess this was built from recycled parts, at some time after 1860. Since there is a neatly cut space for the missing part of the trigger guard it must have been complete when the gun was put together.

Do you know what the five rolled metal inserts on the butt were for - decoration or was there a practical purpose?

rickystl · 25th June 2012, 03:50 PM

Hi Mefidk. Thanks for the additional photos. Now that I see a close up of the muzzle end, as you mentioned the barrel and ramrod were locally made. And, the trigger guard (and trigger) started off as P53 with the exception of the locally added round sling ring. I'm pretty sure the 5 metal pieces on the stock behind the lock were added just as decoration, and quite common on these guns. This gun is a good example of utilizing salvaged British parts. I'm sure that this was often done but most surviving examples I've seen have crude locally made copies of the British Brown Bess or Enfield locks. Your's has the genuine lock and trigger guard, which makes this gun more interesting. Again, great looking gun. Thanks so much for Posting. Rick.

By the way, let me know if you want a hammer screw. As you know the British built these locks by the thousands. So "original" parts are not that hard to come by - at least here in the States.

Mefidk · 29th July 2012, 03:36 PM

I decided to clean this up a bit, make sure there was no rust in the barrel before displaying it on my wall and I made a rather nice discovery. The etched patterns that were visible under the old dry grease are about 60% still inlaid with silver. Not only that but the barrel is, contrary to my first expectations, a damascus twist barrel. No marks on the barrel though, no stamps etc., only the silver pattern.

So far I've only done an gentle etch to bring out the pattern on the top of the barrel where it was invisible. However, now I'm considering darkening it back to what I think is a more orginal colour, and fitting better with the dark wood. Not quite sure how I'll protect the silver though since the etch seems to work best hot and wax or grease resist might not do too well under those conditions. I wonder does anyone have experience with doing this and have an idea how best to tackle it?

22nd June 2012, 06:30 PM	#1
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Arab percussion for comments Hi folks - been a bit quiet on the gun front so I thought I'd share my latest gun. Barrel is 98cm long, 12mm bore, and is hexagonal at the base. The enlarged butt is covered with cloth and wrapped with pieces of animal skin (maybe shot with this gun!). The lock was a nice surprise, which from the photos I was not sure if genuine or in what condition. The outside shows signs of age and the hammer of wear in the cup as a result of frequent use (and misses a retaining screw). The inside was perfect though once cleaned. Army stamps are clearly visible as are a number of other stamps on or near the individual parts (I believe these are referred to in cleaning instructions). The contractor that made the lock plate has his name inside (J. Francis). James Francis was a contractor for Enfield, and together with the form and date I'm assuming that the lock was originally on an P53 or P60 British army Enfield Rifle. Although I am not 100% certain. I guess that the likelihood is that the lock moved to the arab gun at the end of the military rifle's life, perhaps 20 years later, perhaps putting this gun at around 1880-1900. Attached Images

24th June 2012, 08:15 PM	#4
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks, Rick. I've attached a couple of extra pictures that I had handy. The barrell starts off round and becomes hexagonal from the middle towards the back, not damascus, and the muzzle bore is smooth. So not unfortunately an P53 barrel, and ramrod was locally made but you are absolutely right about the trigger guard - even though its been decorated its a perfect match for the Enfield ( I'll come clean here and admit that I had not noticed this even though I'm sitting with a 1956 3-band Enfield not more than 4 feet from my nose ) Since the guard and lock at least are both from the British gun, I guess this was built from recycled parts, at some time after 1860. Since there is a neatly cut space for the missing part of the trigger guard it must have been complete when the gun was put together. Do you know what the five rolled metal inserts on the butt were for - decoration or was there a practical purpose? Attached Images

29th July 2012, 03:36 PM	#6
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	I decided to clean this up a bit, make sure there was no rust in the barrel before displaying it on my wall and I made a rather nice discovery. The etched patterns that were visible under the old dry grease are about 60% still inlaid with silver. Not only that but the barrel is, contrary to my first expectations, a damascus twist barrel. No marks on the barrel though, no stamps etc., only the silver pattern. So far I've only done an gentle etch to bring out the pattern on the top of the barrel where it was invisible. However, now I'm considering darkening it back to what I think is a more orginal colour, and fitting better with the dark wood. Not quite sure how I'll protect the silver though since the etch seems to work best hot and wax or grease resist might not do too well under those conditions. I wonder does anyone have experience with doing this and have an idea how best to tackle it? Attached Images

24th June 2012, 06:30 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I do not know much about guns. I do know that British locks were widely traded. Perhaps the gun is as old as the lock? The only thing I can see that is latter is the white metal which is clearly replacements. Which to me suggests the gun is as old as the lock?

24th June 2012, 07:25 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Mefidk. Nice looking old Arab gun. And, you have one with genuine British parts. Not only the lock, but the front lock screw, trigger guard (and rear sling swival), and ramrod appears to be from a M1853 Enfield. Can you post some additional photos? Especially the muzzle end and ramrod tip. Is the barrel rifled or smoothbore? I'm sure it just a coincidece, but the 98cm (39") barrel length is equal to the length of the M1853 Enfield rifle. But the standard Enfield rifle was a .577 caliber. However, the sharpshooter's rifle was about .45 caliber. From your photo, the front sight looks like it might be a filed down Enfield front sight? Again, more photos if you can. Thanks for posting!!! Wish I owned it. Rick.

25th June 2012, 03:50 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Mefidk. Thanks for the additional photos. Now that I see a close up of the muzzle end, as you mentioned the barrel and ramrod were locally made. And, the trigger guard (and trigger) started off as P53 with the exception of the locally added round sling ring. I'm pretty sure the 5 metal pieces on the stock behind the lock were added just as decoration, and quite common on these guns. This gun is a good example of utilizing salvaged British parts. I'm sure that this was often done but most surviving examples I've seen have crude locally made copies of the British Brown Bess or Enfield locks. Your's has the genuine lock and trigger guard, which makes this gun more interesting. Again, great looking gun. Thanks so much for Posting. Rick. By the way, let me know if you want a hammer screw. As you know the British built these locks by the thousands. So "original" parts are not that hard to come by - at least here in the States.