Dating the Schiavons sword

[Cathey]

Hi Guys

I am trying to put together a rough dating chart for Schiavona Swords. Like many of us I keep a data base of examples that come up at auction however the dating is often just c1600, which given the length of time these swords were around rarely accurate. For this exercise I am ignoring the dates attributed to blades and just concentrating on Guard construction.

This is what I have put together thus far, based on my library and Oakeshott of course. I understand that this is not even close to covering the variations out there, but have just picked those that appear to show the progressive complication of the baskets.

Any help with dating or validating this chart would be most appreciated.

I am currently working on an article to cover the Schiavona and its use, so I thought I would start with a simple way of attributing the evolution and re-dating more accurately those examples already in my data base.

Also, if anyone has a copy of Jean Binck had also penned a short article back in 2003, I would be most grateful as I seem to have misplaced my copy and every link I find to it I have been unable to download

Cheers Cathey

[Hotspur]

I don't have a link handy for the Jean Binck article bit here is one by Nathan Robinson.
http://myarmoury.com/feature_spot_schia.html

Cheers
GC

[Hotspur]

Here through the wayback machine
http://web.archive.org/web/201810241.../schiavona.htm

[Cathey]

Thankyou Hotspur, much appreciated. I have also just found an article Jean sent me many years ago before we lost touch in French by Martin Ehretsmann, part 1 and 2 the skeleton guard. It is interesting, this is the first article that talks about the different scabbards.

Do you have any comments with regard to the dating chart, it is pretty much a best guess at this stage, I am hoping as I follow up references, I might be able to nail down the developmental stages. I will keep posting updates on my early research. I am surprised no one else has replied if only to criticise the assumptions in my chart.

Cheers Cathey.

[Cathey]

As a result of reading a french article by Martin Ehretsmann, part 1 and 2 the skeleton guard, I have revised my chart and brought it down to 8 patterns (or groups) becoming progressively more complex. Ending with the last and most complex of what Martin describes as the fishnet guards.

I understand that this does not cover ever variation but hope that I can use this as a method of grouping available examples and to try and create an easier chronology for collectors, particuarly new collector to follow.

As this chart represents the preparation work for an article on the Schiavona, I would be grateful for any assistance and advice.

I have patterns 2,4 and 8 in my collection and access to a pattern 5, I am still looking to secure patterns 1,3, 6 and 7. However, finding these swords when you live in Australia is challenging.

Cheers Cathey

[Victrix]

I’m not familiar with the Ehretsmann articles, and it seems many in the forum aren’t either, so perhaps you can be so kind and share them with the forum?

In The Collection of Arms of the Split City Museum (2012) the author Goran Borčić distinguishes between schiavonas with skeleton and lattice hilt baskets which makes sense. He mentions the oldest known record of the spada schiavonesca in a testament from Dubrovnik (Ragusa) dating from 1391.

Citing a number of sources including Marija Sercer (Macevi schiavone Povijesnog muzeja Hrvatske, 1972), A. Cimarelli (Armi Bianche, 1969), Heribert Seitz (1965), etc he provides approximate dating for schiavona swords. The earliest skeleton hilt swords are from 1H to mid 16thC, those with heartshaped sidebars dating from 1600-1640, and the ones with more decorated sidebars from 17th-18thC. The lattice hilt schiavonas date from as early as 2H 16thC with single layer side bar items from 1H 17thC (more decorative ones 17thC to beginning 18thC), double layer side bars from 17thC, and triple layer side bars versions from 17th-18thC. It seems schiavona swords continued in use by city guards on the Dalmatian coast into the 19thC. I think dating the swords is difficult in that they each seem quite unique (not standardised or regulation issue), and Ewart Oakeshott in his book European Weapons and Armour suggests different styles may have been in use concurrently.