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#1 |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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We – in Java – call kerises such these, as Bangkinang (the longer), and Bahari kerises (the shorter one). But of course some of you know better than me what they really are. The shorter keris with specific "greneng" measured 42 cm (not including the pesi) and the longer is 54 cm long. More information on these kinds of keris, please?
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 401
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Salam,
The Malays of Sumatra & Peninsula call these dapors as keris Penyalang. Some would simply call them keris Panjang. BTW, are the hilts original to the blade, or are they much later additions? I never saw this type of hilt in a keris Penyalang / Panjang before. |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben
Posts: 458
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Hullo everybody,
From the viewpoint of an Oerang Soenda: - based only on length; yes, the short one (LHS) can be called 'bahari' and the longer one (RHS) a 'Bangkinang' - the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back'). So it was straight (no eloeks/waves) and concentrated more on steel content than pamor/damascene patterns). Also, the Bangkinang did not have a tonggong/back-bone). Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation. Best. |
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#4 | ||
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15
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Dear Ganjawulung,
On several occasions I heard people talk about the "executionerskeris" when the subject was bangkinang. Please tell me, do you think that remark is plausible or just a story? thanks Sukuh |
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#6 | |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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"... the slender and straight keris panjang, or 'long kris', which also used for executions. One of those executions was described by a Dutch eyewitness. The prisoner crouched on the ground, his back to the executioner. Below his left shoulder was glued a thick wad of cotton fluff, the 'rose'. When the moment had come, the executioner attacked with a swift and perfect thrust, penetrating straignt through the back and into the heart. Death was instantaneous; the cotton absorbed the small quantity of flowing blood...," "In earlier days, execution by the kris was, in Indonesia, to some degree considered a 'good dead'; it was much more dignified than simply having one's head cut off...," |
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 15
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If I had to choose I would prefer that method too... ![]() So, correct me if I'm wrong, bangkinang was used for that purpose but not specialy made for it, as I was told..? |
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#8 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
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Do you have any source for this claim as I would like to know more about it? I have never seen any panjang/penyalang with flat tang but that's maybe because I haven't examined any Javanese??? Michael |
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#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben
Posts: 458
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I was talking about the Bangkinang keris. At the time, Bangkinang was an even smaller place then it is today. It was a very isolated place (dense vegetation etc.) and formed one of the 'rantau'/outer-regions of the Minang empire (similar to the 'kejawen' areas of the Jawa empire). Most travelling was done on horseback.I don't believe it would've had a navy, so I don't know what navy you mean.. Perhaps I used the wrong words: '......the Bangkinang was developed in answer to the Portuguese rapier, mainly for use on horse-back (read 'pony-back')...Last of all, the bedor/tang had a flat section to prevent rotation...'. I meant that the shape was influenced by the rapier and its length more suited for horse-back. Also, I meant that the tang was round, but that only a section of it had been flattened (e.g. in the middle or at the tip). (BTW ... traditionally, tangs were not always round. They could be helical-twisted, rectangular, with a hole at the tip etc.) Since the Bangkinang became popular throughout the region, it also became imitated by local smiths, who may or may not have followed it's protocol. As for sources,what can I say? I am neither an expert nor an academic, so I don't file/document everything. What I know and believe, I have picked up along the way (especially during my time spent under the tutelage of elders at my kaboejoetan (centre for heritage/tradition). Perhaps someone who is knowledgeable on the Minang Pagar Roejoeng empire will give you answers. Best. |
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