Turkish Pistol ?

rickystl · 3rd April 2012, 05:31 PM

Hello everyone. I've been away from the Forum for a couple months. I will start to play catch up on the many Posts here and the European Forum.
Meantime, I experienced a recent moment of weakness

I just had to have this Pistol to add to my collection. I believe this is a Turkish made (not Balkan) pistol. There are no markings of any kind on the outside, inside the lock, or underneath the barrel. It's about .65 caliber. But again, I believe it is Turkish made. Anyone else agree? Comments appreciated. Thanks for looking. Rick.

rickystl · 3rd April 2012, 05:36 PM

A Few More:

Included is original early Suma loading Rod.

TVV · 3rd April 2012, 05:54 PM

Very nice pistol, in really good shape, congratulations. While it is obviously Ottoman, what makes you think that it was made/assembled in Asia Minor as opposed to the Balkans?
Regards,
Teodor

Multumesc · 4th April 2012, 10:31 AM

Very nice pistol

rickystl · 4th April 2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Very nice pistol, in really good shape, congratulations. While it is obviously Ottoman, what makes you think that it was made/assembled in Asia Minor as opposed to the Balkans?
Regards,
Teodor

Hi Teodor!! Thanks for the kind comments. Of course I can't say for sure it was not made in the Balkans. The design of the butt and cap, and especially the trigger guard design looks almost identical to other Turkish made pistols I've seen/held.
The Balkan pistols (made for the Turkish Market) have a distinctive, larger butt cap area on every one I've seen (over a hundered). Below is a typical Balkan made pistol. Notice the large style butt section.
All the pistols that I have seen that could be verified as Turkish made, have the slightly smaller butt with a slightly more pronounced curve.
Again, this is just my opinion. Thanks again for your comments. Rick.

David R · 4th April 2012, 11:33 PM

Bear in mind both Italy and France made pistols for export to the Ottoman Empire, and this has a French look about it to me. Then again, lack of marks of any kind is a puzzler. Try it on the European forum.

TVV · 5th April 2012, 01:17 AM

Rick,

Good observation on the butt cap area. I was not aware that this could be used to differentiate between Ottoman pistols made in the Balkans from those made in the Asian part of the Empire. Is there a reference that states that?

To me, the brass rosettes on the stock look very simialr to the rosettes found on Balkan rifles and daggers, such as the Bosnian knives. I agree that the crescents indicate that the pistol likely belonged to a Turk, but there were a lot of Turks all over the Balkans in the 19th century.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to learn more, as the topic of Ottoman firearms is still not a well studied one, given the vast size of the Empire and the tendency to describe many tiems as simply Ottoman, with little attempt to attribute them to a more narrow area. This is further complicated by the fact that as David ntoes, this design is French and a lot of French, Italian and Belgian manufacturers were flooding the Ottoman market with pistols and pistol parts, supplemented with locally made imitations.

Regards,
Teodor

3rd April 2012, 05:31 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Turkish Pistol ? Hello everyone. I've been away from the Forum for a couple months. I will start to play catch up on the many Posts here and the European Forum. Meantime, I experienced a recent moment of weakness I just had to have this Pistol to add to my collection. I believe this is a Turkish made (not Balkan) pistol. There are no markings of any kind on the outside, inside the lock, or underneath the barrel. It's about .65 caliber. But again, I believe it is Turkish made. Anyone else agree? Comments appreciated. Thanks for looking. Rick. Attached Images

3rd April 2012, 05:36 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	A Few More Photos A Few More: Included is original early Suma loading Rod. Attached Images

3rd April 2012, 05:54 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Very nice pistol, in really good shape, congratulations. While it is obviously Ottoman, what makes you think that it was made/assembled in Asia Minor as opposed to the Balkans? Regards, Teodor

4th April 2012, 10:31 AM	#4
Multumesc Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Romania Posts: 203	Very nice pistol

4th April 2012, 11:33 PM	#6
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Bear in mind both Italy and France made pistols for export to the Ottoman Empire, and this has a French look about it to me. Then again, lack of marks of any kind is a puzzler. Try it on the European forum.

5th April 2012, 01:17 AM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	Rick, Good observation on the butt cap area. I was not aware that this could be used to differentiate between Ottoman pistols made in the Balkans from those made in the Asian part of the Empire. Is there a reference that states that? To me, the brass rosettes on the stock look very simialr to the rosettes found on Balkan rifles and daggers, such as the Bosnian knives. I agree that the crescents indicate that the pistol likely belonged to a Turk, but there were a lot of Turks all over the Balkans in the 19th century. I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to learn more, as the topic of Ottoman firearms is still not a well studied one, given the vast size of the Empire and the tendency to describe many tiems as simply Ottoman, with little attempt to attribute them to a more narrow area. This is further complicated by the fact that as David ntoes, this design is French and a lot of French, Italian and Belgian manufacturers were flooding the Ottoman market with pistols and pistol parts, supplemented with locally made imitations. Regards, Teodor