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#1 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 847
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Hello,
I hesitate to post it in the miscellanea forum, do you think it's an old katar weapon or an old tool ( what for ?) ? Kind regards |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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This is for Jens.
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#3 |
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ireland
Posts: 539
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My observations, and they are not based on anything concrete
To me it looks as if a wooden handle would have gone around the cross bar below the blade. To use as a weapon though a circular piece of timber would not be the best as the knife would not index very well to know where the point is and also it could swivel in use, very easily. blade does look very blade like though and definitely looks as if it has some good age to it any back story? Ken |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
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Ariel - thank you for the invitation:-).
Ken, yes I think it could very well be a katar of a very old form. I dont know if you have read my article How Old is the Katar? If not, here it is. https://www.academia.edu/31094926/How_Old_is_the_Katar Originally the article was published in Arms & Armour. Vol. 10, no 1, 2013. Royal Armouries, Leeds. A possible wooden grip, did not have to have been round, it could also have had other forms. See my catalogue pp. 182-183, or if you dont have it you can find some katars with only one cross bar on the MET homepage. You do, now and again, see katars with only one cross bar, but it is not often, and they are usually quite old. The missing protection, in this case the missing side guards, is strange, and I cant give you an answer to this, but in the south you sometimes see katars with very short side guards. |
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 847
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Hello,
Thank you so much ! Especially Jens for your precious complete file about katars origin ! Really interesting ! No, there was no real back story, the seller sold it as a really old knife, maybe european ... I'll post more pictures when I'll receive it Kind regards |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 90
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I personally would be wary of attributing much age to this piece. Assuming it is even supposed to be some kind of katar, there are fair number of "katars" of similar form - all of which are blatant fakes/crude reproductions - that are currently being sold online.
Attached is one such example. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,903
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Definitely not a katar as it would be impossible to use, thus useless.
This contraption simply cannot be held firmly in the hand. ![]() |
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#8 |
Lead Moderator European Armoury
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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That this is or not a katar, i wouldn't presume to have the luggage to judge on it but, i wouldn't easily reject that its sole bar doesn't allow for a firm grip, without pondering on its (missing) handle. Think of such being of a (wooden) square cross section ... or ovoid, like the naginata, for one
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#9 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
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The katar shown in the article (no 205) is a drawing I found in Holstein's Contribution a L'etude des Armes Orientales, vol. I, and his reference to Mitra's book made me buy the book, and start to research the katar.
Mitra wrote the book in 1875, so he had to make a drawing. I knew where the temple in Orissa was, and tried to make a photographer take a picture of the statue, but unfortunately he could not find it. Later I found a picture of the statue in a book on Hindu Temples of Orissa, vol III. In Art and Culture 1300-1900 Stuart Cary Welsh wrote, that the katar originally came from South India, but unfortunately he did not write why he thought so. There were katars made with only on cross bar, and not only from the 10th and 11th century, but also later. Some had side bars and some a plate in front of the hand, but they are not often seen. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 847
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Hello everybody,
I finally received it !! don't really know what to think about it, seems old iron-steel ( really old !?!) the top looks like a real old heavy spear ( total weight 850gr ) but don't sure it's an old katar: The handle is really large 11cm I'm not that big but not small !! (1,85 meter tall ), usually katar handle are pretty small for me, this one is really large ! ( maybe for mammoth hunting ...) |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 847
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here some pics of the handle,
Before receiving it, I thought the side bars had been shortened but I don't think so If it was an old on handle katar dagger , it could have a wood or bone grip like this one I found on internet, said to be from the 17th century. What do you think ? -Kind Regards Frankie |
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 847
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And if it's not a dagger/spear,
what could it be used for ?? Thank you !!! |
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: comfortably at home, USA
Posts: 432
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Perhaps a parring dagger, like a Main Gauche ?
Rich |
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