Help With a Moro Mystery Blade

CharlesS · 25th January 2009, 05:07 PM

I am hoping some of the 'Moro guys' can help me in specifically determining the name of the blade style. It is not very common, but I am rather positive I remember its style from the old Weapons of MoroLand display plaques......can anyone help?

I got this one from the UK, and was very skeptical of it...wondering if it was, indeed, Moro...until I got my hands on it. Once in hand it became clear that the blade is classic Moro construction. It is very heavy, cleaver-like, and very well forged. There is little doubt it has legitimate age and was likely "born together" with the hilt.

The scabbard is newly made...and I love it....by forumite Philip Tom. It was created with a little artistic license combining barong and pira styles....since I cannot find any info or old pics of a scabbard style for this one.

Dimensions: 22.5in. overall; 14.5in. blade; 2in.= blade's widest point; just over 1/4in.= blade's thickest point.

Help with proper name identification and comments are welcome.

Robert · 25th January 2009, 06:40 PM

Hi Charles, Great looking blade and I think Philip Tom did a wonderful job on the scabbard. A very nice addition to your collection and one I would like to have in mine. I have only heard these called bolos but if I remember correctly on the plaques they were referred to as gayang?

Could you please post the dimensions?

Robert

VANDOO · 25th January 2009, 07:06 PM

NICE ONE AND GOOD WORK ON THE SCABBARD.

THE BLADE FORM MOST CLOSELY RESEMBLES THE PIRA WHICH DOES HAVE A CURVE TO THE BLADE AS WELL AS THE CLIPPED BOWIE STYLE TIP. THE HANDLE MORE CLOSELY RESEMBLES THE BANGKUNG WHICH ALSO HAS THE CLIPPED POINT BUT MORE OF A STRAIGHT BLADE. EXAMPLES CAN BE SEEN IN CATO'S BOOK ON PAGE 97 AND 99 ON PAGE 88 ARE PICTURES OF THE MORO SOUVINEER PLACKS.
YOUR SWORD REMINDS ME OF THE COLLECTION I BOUGHT A FEW YEARS BACK SEE SEVERAL POSTS IN ARCHIVES ON "VANDOO'S MORO SWORDS" UNFORTUNATELY THE PICTURES ARE MOSTLY GONE. MY SWORDS WERE MADE ON MINDANAO AND PURCHASED AROUND THE END OF WW2 IN ZAMBOANGA AND BROUGHT HOME IN 1946. I SUSPECT THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE , IF YOU DECIDE TO LET IT GO DROP ME A LINE AS I DON'T HAVE ONE OF THAT EXACT FORM AND IT WOULD GO WELL WITH THE SET I HAVE.

CharlesS · 25th January 2009, 07:13 PM

Robert, please see my revised post.

Vandoo, while it is logical to draw comparisons of this one to a pira, I do not believe it actually is a pira. The hilt looks like a rather typical barong simple jungayyan style to me.

kino · 25th January 2009, 08:38 PM

A very nice and unusual blade. A departure from the norm. Never seen one like it. Could it be a customer specefied blade shape. A European could have oredered it...????
Congrats on a great find.

VANDOO · 25th January 2009, 08:39 PM

TRUE IT IS NOT A PIRA OR A BANGKUNG BUT IT SHOWS INFLUENCE FROM BOTH AND HAS FEATURES SIMULAR TO BOTH. IT MAY HAVE BEEN FASHIONED AFTER SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY OR PATTERENED AFTER SOMETHING ON ONE OF THE MORO WEAPONS PLACKS. THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW FOR SURE WOULD BE TO ASK THE PERSON WHO MADE IT WHAT HE CALLED IT. THAT NOT BEING POSSIBLE ALL WE CAN DO IS RELY ON SURMIZE, GUESS AND LOGICAL COMPARISONS WHICH MAY BE ACCURATE OR NOT.

AT ANY RATE THE PERSON WHO MADE IT KNEW HIS BUSINESS AND DID A VERY GOOD JOB. THE REASON I GAVE THE INFORMATION AND ORIGIN ON MY GROUP OF SWORDS IS THE SIMULARITYS IN QUALITY OF WORKMANSHIP AND APPERANT AGE OF THESE EXAMPLES. I HAVE NOT SEEN SIMULAR WORKMANSHIP OF THAT AGE OR QUALITY OR THE STRANGE FORMS OF MORO SWORDS FROM ANY OTHER SOURCE SO CAN ONLY BASE MY CONCLUSIONS ON WHAT I KNOW AND SUSPECT. SO UNTIL WE CAN COME UP WITH ANOTHER EXACT EXAMPLE WITH FULL PROVENANCE THATS THE BEST WE CAN DO.

CharlesS · 26th January 2009, 04:00 PM

Surely someone has one of the old Weapons of Moroland that would help id this..........

Lew · 26th January 2009, 04:22 PM

Charles

possibly a form of loring or laring could be a gayang also? My guess is the laring?The hilt matches just switch the blades with the gayang.

CharlesS · 26th January 2009, 04:52 PM

I think you are on to something Lew...thanks!

VANDOO · 26th January 2009, 07:51 PM

I HAVE TWO MORO WEAPONS PLACKS BUT THEY ARE WW2 ONE DATED 1946 AND OF LOW QUALITY, THEY ONLY HAVE 8 SWORDS PER PLACK. THE CLOSEST TO YOURS IS CALLED A UTAK. PERHAPS THERE IS AN OLD POST WITH PICTURES OF SOME OF THE OLDER PLACKS WITH STEEL BLADES AND BONE OR HORN HANDLES. I WOULD TRUST THE NAMES AND CONFIGURATION OF THE WEAPONS MORE ON THOSE THAN ON ONES LIKE MINE WITH ALUMINUM BLADES AND WOOD HANDLES. I SEE MANY INACCURACYS ON BOTH OF MY PLACKS AND WOULD NOT RECOGNIZE WHAT THEY REFER TO FOUR TIMES AS A CAMPILIAN WHICH DOSEN'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE A REAL ONE, OR THEIR BANGKON WHICH ALSO IS FAR OFF FROM REALITY AND THE SPELLING IS ALSO NOT WHAT WE USE. ONE OF THE PLACKS IN CATOS BOOK IS OF THE OLD STYLE WITH BONE HANDLES AND STEEL BLADES THE ONE MOST LIKE YOURS IN BLADE SHAPE IS IDENTIFIED AS A LA--- UNFORTUNATELY I CAN'T READ IT WITH MY BEST MAGNIFING GLASS, THE HANDLE IS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS ALSO.

Dimasalang · 27th January 2009, 02:49 AM

Nice find! I think I seen that one before.

Speaking of the "Weapons of Moroland" plaque. FWIW, heres one of the "Gayong" and/or "Gayang" blades(you can see both) from a extremely large plaque. Each are 3-5" long. Both look similar to yours.

hideyoshi · 26th February 2009, 05:06 PM

charles, the bottom left dagger is identical to your's, no? this photo was from the spain museum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I am hoping some of the 'Moro guys' can help me in specifically determining the name of the blade style. It is not very common, but I am rather positive I remember its style from the old Weapons of MoroLand display plaques......can anyone help?

I got this one from the UK, and was very skeptical of it...wondering if it was, indeed, Moro...until I got my hands on it. Once in hand it became clear that the blade is classic Moro construction. It is very heavy, cleaver-like, and very well forged. There is little doubt it has legitimate age and was likely "born together" with the hilt.

The scabbard is newly made...and I love it....by forumite Philip Tom. It was created with a little artistic license combining barong and pira styles....since I cannot find any info or old pics of a scabbard style for this one.

Dimensions: 22.5in. overall; 14.5in. blade; 2in.= blade's widest point; just over 1/4in.= blade's thickest point.

Help with proper name identification and comments are welcome.

CharlesS · 2nd March 2009, 01:46 AM

Thanks Hideyoshi,

Yes, they are about identical, except that the museum piece is a wider blade with a longer 'clip'.

Were these by chance named or labeled, or was this simply a collection of Moro weapons??

hideyoshi · 2nd March 2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Thanks Hideyoshi,

Yes, they are about identical, except that the museum piece is a wider blade with a longer 'clip'.

Were these by chance named or labeled, or was this simply a collection of Moro weapons??

no, the sword was not labeled. found it at an old tread in this forum " pi weaponry found in spanish museum".

25th January 2009, 05:07 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Help With a Moro Mystery Blade I am hoping some of the 'Moro guys' can help me in specifically determining the name of the blade style. It is not very common, but I am rather positive I remember its style from the old Weapons of MoroLand display plaques......can anyone help? I got this one from the UK, and was very skeptical of it...wondering if it was, indeed, Moro...until I got my hands on it. Once in hand it became clear that the blade is classic Moro construction. It is very heavy, cleaver-like, and very well forged. There is little doubt it has legitimate age and was likely "born together" with the hilt. The scabbard is newly made...and I love it....by forumite Philip Tom. It was created with a little artistic license combining barong and pira styles....since I cannot find any info or old pics of a scabbard style for this one. Dimensions: 22.5in. overall; 14.5in. blade; 2in.= blade's widest point; just over 1/4in.= blade's thickest point. Help with proper name identification and comments are welcome. Attached Images Last edited by CharlesS; 25th January 2009 at 07:39 PM.

26th January 2009, 04:22 PM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Charles possibly a form of loring or laring could be a gayang also? My guess is the laring?The hilt matches just switch the blades with the gayang. Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 26th January 2009 at 04:33 PM.

25th January 2009, 06:40 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Charles, Great looking blade and I think Philip Tom did a wonderful job on the scabbard. A very nice addition to your collection and one I would like to have in mine. I have only heard these called bolos but if I remember correctly on the plaques they were referred to as gayang? Could you please post the dimensions? Robert

25th January 2009, 07:06 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NICE ONE AND GOOD WORK ON THE SCABBARD. THE BLADE FORM MOST CLOSELY RESEMBLES THE PIRA WHICH DOES HAVE A CURVE TO THE BLADE AS WELL AS THE CLIPPED BOWIE STYLE TIP. THE HANDLE MORE CLOSELY RESEMBLES THE BANGKUNG WHICH ALSO HAS THE CLIPPED POINT BUT MORE OF A STRAIGHT BLADE. EXAMPLES CAN BE SEEN IN CATO'S BOOK ON PAGE 97 AND 99 ON PAGE 88 ARE PICTURES OF THE MORO SOUVINEER PLACKS. YOUR SWORD REMINDS ME OF THE COLLECTION I BOUGHT A FEW YEARS BACK SEE SEVERAL POSTS IN ARCHIVES ON "VANDOO'S MORO SWORDS" UNFORTUNATELY THE PICTURES ARE MOSTLY GONE. MY SWORDS WERE MADE ON MINDANAO AND PURCHASED AROUND THE END OF WW2 IN ZAMBOANGA AND BROUGHT HOME IN 1946. I SUSPECT THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE , IF YOU DECIDE TO LET IT GO DROP ME A LINE AS I DON'T HAVE ONE OF THAT EXACT FORM AND IT WOULD GO WELL WITH THE SET I HAVE.

25th January 2009, 07:13 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Robert, please see my revised post. Vandoo, while it is logical to draw comparisons of this one to a pira, I do not believe it actually is a pira. The hilt looks like a rather typical barong simple jungayyan style to me.

25th January 2009, 08:38 PM	#5
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	A very nice and unusual blade. A departure from the norm. Never seen one like it. Could it be a customer specefied blade shape. A European could have oredered it...???? Congrats on a great find.

25th January 2009, 08:39 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	TRUE IT IS NOT A PIRA OR A BANGKUNG BUT IT SHOWS INFLUENCE FROM BOTH AND HAS FEATURES SIMULAR TO BOTH. IT MAY HAVE BEEN FASHIONED AFTER SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY OR PATTERENED AFTER SOMETHING ON ONE OF THE MORO WEAPONS PLACKS. THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW FOR SURE WOULD BE TO ASK THE PERSON WHO MADE IT WHAT HE CALLED IT. THAT NOT BEING POSSIBLE ALL WE CAN DO IS RELY ON SURMIZE, GUESS AND LOGICAL COMPARISONS WHICH MAY BE ACCURATE OR NOT. AT ANY RATE THE PERSON WHO MADE IT KNEW HIS BUSINESS AND DID A VERY GOOD JOB. THE REASON I GAVE THE INFORMATION AND ORIGIN ON MY GROUP OF SWORDS IS THE SIMULARITYS IN QUALITY OF WORKMANSHIP AND APPERANT AGE OF THESE EXAMPLES. I HAVE NOT SEEN SIMULAR WORKMANSHIP OF THAT AGE OR QUALITY OR THE STRANGE FORMS OF MORO SWORDS FROM ANY OTHER SOURCE SO CAN ONLY BASE MY CONCLUSIONS ON WHAT I KNOW AND SUSPECT. SO UNTIL WE CAN COME UP WITH ANOTHER EXACT EXAMPLE WITH FULL PROVENANCE THATS THE BEST WE CAN DO.

26th January 2009, 04:00 PM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Surely someone has one of the old Weapons of Moroland that would help id this..........

26th January 2009, 04:52 PM	#9
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	I think you are on to something Lew...thanks!

26th January 2009, 07:51 PM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE TWO MORO WEAPONS PLACKS BUT THEY ARE WW2 ONE DATED 1946 AND OF LOW QUALITY, THEY ONLY HAVE 8 SWORDS PER PLACK. THE CLOSEST TO YOURS IS CALLED A UTAK. PERHAPS THERE IS AN OLD POST WITH PICTURES OF SOME OF THE OLDER PLACKS WITH STEEL BLADES AND BONE OR HORN HANDLES. I WOULD TRUST THE NAMES AND CONFIGURATION OF THE WEAPONS MORE ON THOSE THAN ON ONES LIKE MINE WITH ALUMINUM BLADES AND WOOD HANDLES. I SEE MANY INACCURACYS ON BOTH OF MY PLACKS AND WOULD NOT RECOGNIZE WHAT THEY REFER TO FOUR TIMES AS A CAMPILIAN WHICH DOSEN'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE A REAL ONE, OR THEIR BANGKON WHICH ALSO IS FAR OFF FROM REALITY AND THE SPELLING IS ALSO NOT WHAT WE USE. ONE OF THE PLACKS IN CATOS BOOK IS OF THE OLD STYLE WITH BONE HANDLES AND STEEL BLADES THE ONE MOST LIKE YOURS IN BLADE SHAPE IS IDENTIFIED AS A LA--- UNFORTUNATELY I CAN'T READ IT WITH MY BEST MAGNIFING GLASS, THE HANDLE IS DIFFERENT FROM YOURS ALSO.

27th January 2009, 02:49 AM	#11
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Nice find! I think I seen that one before. Speaking of the "Weapons of Moroland" plaque. FWIW, heres one of the "Gayong" and/or "Gayang" blades(you can see both) from a extremely large plaque. Each are 3-5" long. Both look similar to yours.

2nd March 2009, 01:46 AM	#13
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Thanks Hideyoshi, Yes, they are about identical, except that the museum piece is a wider blade with a longer 'clip'. Were these by chance named or labeled, or was this simply a collection of Moro weapons??