'Rose' Mark on the spine of Solingen blades

[Radboud]

Solingen in Germany has for a very long time been a major manufacturer and exporter of sword and knife blades. These blades were exported far and wide; sold to local cutlers who would mount them on hilts in the local fashions.

While some blades were visibly marked as having come from Solingen, others were not leaving us to make educated guesses of their origins based on decorations and styles.

Two common clues are the 'cartouche' on the ricasso and the presence of a "Rose" on the blade spine at the base. The Rose seams to have appeared in the latter half of the 18th Century and disappeared in the 1820s when the decoration styles changed as well.

Pawel Bartela askes if this change is related to the abolishment of guilds in 1809 by Napoleon:

One of the Solingen marks on the back of the blade. Do you know sabers from the 1820s and later with such a sign? Does the end of the marking have anything to do with the dissolution of craftsmen's guilds in Solingen by Napoleon in 1809?
Decree of March 31, 1809 in Dutchy of Berg (Solingen). [https://wiki.genealogy.net/Patentensteuer_(Westfalen)

International Sword Collectors | Facebook Group

While I don't know the answer, it does appear from known examples that the Rose is missing from blades after the 1820s.

It should also be added that the makers at Solingen were very accommodating and happy to apply marks to their blades in line with their clients' needs. Examples of this are the blades imported by Runkel to the UK between 1780 and 1808. These are marked with his name prior to them being engraved and finished with blue and gilt decoration.

Below are examples of swords from my collection with Solingen made blades that pre-date the change in the 1820s:

French 'Cote de Melon' light cavalry officers' sabre:


Example of the Solingen Cartouche and 'talismanic' decorations


Going by the hilt style and blade decorations, I would date this sword to the 1780s.

"Rose" Mark


French 'Garde de Bataille' Heavy cavalry sword:


Cartouche and Solingen style Trophy of Arms:



Missing its blue and gilt.

Rose Mark


French Dragoon Officers 'Garde de Bataille'


Cartouche


Rose mark

[Radboud]

French Year 11 Light cavalry officers' sabre

This sabre is likely to be from the Napoleonic era, but it is possible that dates a little past that. However, the bluing terminates in a straight line, which predates the 1820s change. This blade was retailed by S&K.



Cartouche with S&K mark



Rose mark


Dutch m1800 Light Cavalry officers' sabre
This sabre has all the typical Solingen decorations but the makers name on the spine is Rys with the Dutch Y. It likely served with Dutch forces during the reign of Napoleon.



Cartouche


Cutler's name instead of the Rose

[Radboud]

The rest of my Solingen-made blades are from the British side of my collection (I'm excluding the smallswords as they don't have spines and one spadroon with a double-edged blade) and were imported by J J Runkel. They are interesting because they show a uniformity of iconography and variations in the signature.

1788 Pattern light cavalry troopers sword

This sword would have been imported as a complete sword by Runkel, it has an ordinance board inspection stamp, and even though the blade is engraved it would have been 'bare' of blue or gilt. These are a good example of how the craftsmen in Solingen were able turn out blades, that a trooper sword would be decorated in this manner.



Cartouch, ordinance board stamp and talismanic decorations


R. Sohlingen
Note the spelling of Solingen with an h, this appears to have changed around the turn of the century.


Horse Head officers sabre by Archer of Dublin
Note the straight termination of the blueing. The blade is engraved with GR on one side and the pre-1801 coat of arms. Other decorations are fairly typical of Solingen's work.


Cartouche


J.J: Runkel. Solingen


1786 Style Infantry Officers sword
This is a 1780-1790s style infantry officer sword with a Runkel-supplied blade. The blue and gilt are missing, but it has the GR and post-1801 coat of arms.



Cartouche


J: J: Runkel Solingen

[Radboud]

1803 Pattern Infantry "Flank" Officers sabre.
The sword was assembled by Prosser, who was known to use Runkel blades earlier in his career. The blade has lost its blue and gilt, but has the standard decorations along with the GR cypher and the 1801 - 1816 coat of arms.



Cartouche


J: J: Runkel Solingen


1803 Pattern Light Company Officers sabre.
Assembled by Bennett, the blueing terminates in a straight line with GR and 1801 - 1816 British Coat of Arms.



Blade and Cartouche



J. J. Runkel Solingen
Note how the gilding terminates at Solingen, indicating that the engraving was done at time of manufacture.

[Radboud]

If other members have their own examples of late 18th to early 19th-century Solingen-made blades, I would love to see their markings to expand on the sample size.

[Jim McDougall]

This is a magnificent topic and thread! Thank you!
I had asked about the 'ROSE', or what appears to be a floral/vegetal device on the spine of blades near the hilt, and in some arcane fashion as shown in these examples.
Now that I see the context, I am curious on that these seem to appear on blades on French swords, or in European armies' swords during Napoleonic period.
There was mention of these devices being used on Solingen made blades.

I had thought that most blades on French swords of these times were from Klingenthal and of course so marked on the blade spines.

Is it possible that alternatively the blades with these devices on the spines had to do with Caissagnard in Nantes, who embellished blades with certain esoteric and cosmological themed motif?
It seems these blades could have come from Solingen? but would the motif including the 'rose' have been applied in Solingen? then these blades were fitted there.

I am looking forward to other examples of swords with this floral device on the blade spine, and more on these details. Thank you for this thread!

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
I have a small sword hilted spadroon type sword probably for a Dutch officer with this 'rose' detail.
Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Flag of the Seven United Netherlands 1581-1795.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

This is an amazing thread, and again Radboud, I thank you for initiating it.
Also,, I am so grateful to see all of these great examples shared here. While as many here know, I have been particularly fascinated by blade markings and motif for many years, so this discussion is especially important to me.

The 'Caissagnard' matter for me evolved from several references in French, where my limited understanding of the language prevented more detailed comprehension of what was mostly comments on the talismanic, occult and arcane motifs on French blades of 18th into early 19th c.

I had presumed the name was to a cutler, but more that it had seemed to become a colloquial term describing these motif elements.

It seems to me quite possible that the blade decoration which includes these unusual squiggles and swirls termed 'roses' at the blade spine near hilt may have been added by cutlers to blades which were essentially 'blanks' from shops in Solingen.

These appear to me to be singular renditions of a basic form in a key location on the blade which represent arcane identification or perhaps other 'magical' or occult symbolism as with sigils and such devices. The term magic should not be taken in the negative connotation often perceived, but more in this arcane sense.
The so called 'anchor' used in the names and motif from Spanish swords and readily adopted by Solingen are an example of this type of nuanced symbolism familiar in cabalistic, talismanic, magic and occult symbolism in sigils and such devices.

Years ago I noticed the 'anchors' often had varied numbers of cross bars and serifs rather than a single pattern, and thought this might be some sort of individual signature subtly placed on a common device by certain makers.
The familiar cross and orb of Germany may have been a variation on these, and various writers have tried to associate certain collectively used devices with specific makers, but this has remained unconvincing.

The features and decorative motif of blades of the 18th c. indeed did diffuse widely through Europe and Great Britain via the rage of military fashion, and these styles of motif were not necessarily applied only in Solingen, but with cutlers and outfitters using imported blades.

Makers stamps and punzones on blades are an entirely different matter than these kinds of applied motif, etching, bluing etc. which were rather custom tailored to those receiving the sword being received from such outfitters.

These are just my opinions on the processing and diffusion of swords of these times circulating with officers in armies of various nations and states. As officers of various countries were often with the armies of foreign nations, it is easy to see how styles and fashion diffused so widely.
The pageantry of military uniforms and fashion in these periods has long been a most popular subject for collectors,artists and historians for these very reasons.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This is an amazing thread, and again Radboud, I thank you for initiating it.

Thank you for the comments and feedback Jim.

(The comments below are limited to include a very specific time frame; from about 1770 to around 1820. As technology and the needs of the clientele develop, supply and production methodology develop as well.)

I think the Caissagnard connection is interesting as well, as from the surviving examples we have, it is clear he liked to repeat the same three motifs of sword arm, sun and moon on his blades.

This is the information I have on Caissagnard, who worked as a furbisher

CASSAIGNARD
Pierre Cassaignard was born in 1708 and died in September 1786. In 1734-1737, he was appointed juror of the Maîtres arquebusiers. It was his son (first name unknown) who settled in Nantes where he worked as a furbisher from 1774 to 1812. The signatures are handwritten with embellished capital letters and found as follows:

Cassaignard / Md / Fourbisseaur / a Nantes
- A Marine officers sabre
Cassaignard / Fourbisseur / du Roy / a Nantes
- A sabre a brass hilt
Cassaignard / Fourbisseur / du Roy / a Nantes
- On the ricasso as for the previous inscriptions and higher
a la victoire
- Ensign (trade name?) of Cassaignard on the blued smallsword possibly for a Marine officer
Cassaignard / Fourbisseur / du Roy / Maitre arquebussier / pres la Bourse / a Nantes
- On a sabre belonging to an officer of Marine troops engraved with sun, moons, stars
Cassagnard / Fourbisseur / du Roy / et Arquebussier pres la Bourse / a Nantes
- Note different spelling of name, found on small sword with pas d ane guard 1755 - 1780

Armes Blanches
Symbolisme, Inscriptions, Marquages, Fourbisseurs, Manufactures
By Jean L'Hoste and Jean-Jacques Buigne
Pg. 181

As a furbisher Cassaignard is unlikely to have manufactured his own blades. So then the question is, did he source complete swords or blank blades and apply the fittings and decorations himself, or did he acquire the blades decorated to his specifications and then apply the fittings? Keep in mind that he also sold firearms, making it less likely he did any work himself, acting more as an outfitter than a producer.

While admittedly, my understanding of the process that turned steel into a complete sword ready for sale is limited, I do know that it involved several stages with components passing through multiple hands (even borders) along the way (the extreme example of this is Indian steel getting used on a Viking sword, so it's been this way for centuries). We also see the growth of complementary industries building around key competencies. Such as steel works and bladesmiths in Toledo around high-quality ore deposits.

It is reasonable then to assume that if the Solingen blade smiths didn't decorate their works themselves, there would have been craftsmen on hand to pass them on to, along with cutlers to fit the grips and scabbards. This group of craftsmen would then have worked hand in hand with the authorised merchants to facilitate the negotiations between client and producer.

The actual decorations were applied with a stencil, so it wouldn't have been too difficult for a customer and middleman to agree to a design and then order a quantity of blades complete with decoration. We see evidence of this in the indifferent spelling of English names on Solingen-produced blades of the 19th Century.

I personally still believe that a good number of Solingen exported blades were supplied complete with decoration applied. I'm sure they supplied blanks as well, being merchants first and foremost, but the large number of surviving blades with very similar decorations that can be attributed to Solingen, but used by different countries makes this the most plausible explanation.

Especially when the local craftsmen have a distinct fashion of their own. The most striking example of this is the J J Runkel imported blades. Aside from the GR cypher and the British Coat of Arms, the decorations on these blades are strikingly plain against what the British sword makers are producing, with their charging horsemen, angelic figures and Britania with her shield. The same can be said when we compare the two S&K swords shown above against their French-made contemporaries. They look like mass-produced swords kept as generic as possible to appeal to a larger number of buyers.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
Flag of the Seven United Netherlands 1581-1795.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman, I love this sword, and the sword knot is sublime. I have a similar sword and some information that I believe will be of interest to you. I'll post it in a new thread to keep the topics apart.

[Hanger1]

Hello, I am a new member and also posted this one sword with another in my recent, original thread to ask for help. However the one blade fits well with this discussion and the request for other marked blades, potentially Solingen. This sword has a mystery hilt on it, and then has the blade with the etchings/engravings.

I have struck out with my other posted thread thus far, so maybe more people will see it again here. Thanks all.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Hanger1

I have struck out with my other posted thread thus far, so maybe more people will see it again here. Thanks all.

Hello Hanger, that's a nice late 18th Century sword you have there. Difficult to attribute to any particulare nation as the markings are fairly typical for the time.

The only thing I can add is that according to M. Petard and Blondieau, the 'petite montmorency' moniker came into use in the late 19th Century and broadly applies to a type of sword that was popular in France between 1788 and 1800, based on the style of blade that looked like a smaller version of the Montmorency Dragoons' sword.

[Radboud]

In keeping with this thread I recently came across a most interesting Spanish sword. Described as a Spanish light cavalry sabre it is marked with the typical Solingen style decorations and cartouche, has a 'Rose' on the spine however it is also marked Toledo Ano 1823.

This is historically interesting because it coinsides with the restoration of Toledo as a sword manufacturing base and it shows that some of their products used imported Solingen made blades. But most interstingly, it gives us a fixed date.

[Jacenty]

I will add pictures of my spade to the discussion.
It is a French sword, originally, royal protection mod. 1780 by Louis XVI. Manufactured between 1787 and 1805. A regulation one, used by the French Guards of the Revolutionary and First Empire period of Napoleon I., infantry and cavalry officers. At the hilt the punch "king's head" - Solingen Brothers Weyersberg.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Hanger1

Hello, I am a new member and also posted this one sword with another in my recent, original thread to ask for help. However the one blade fits well with this discussion and the request for other marked blades, potentially Solingen. This sword has a mystery hilt on it, and then has the blade with the etchings/engravings.

I have struck out with my other posted thread thus far, so maybe more people will see it again here. Thanks all.

With European sabers of this period, it is hard to pinpoint the nationality of the ubiquitous stirrup hilts which fall outside the 'regulation' patterns known. The style of the celestial symbols suggest of course mid to end of 18th century and possibly Austro Hungarian, or perhaps of course French. The French army had strong presence of Hungarian forces in their ranks, further popularizing the 'hussar' phenomenon in cavalry fashion.
While Solingen used these kinds of celestial groupings on blades, these were also used in Styrian application as well as French (especially in Nantes).

[Alex.K]

Hello, I have a sword which was given to me several years ago and based on several posts I assume it is a Solingen sword. Amongst several etching on the sword there is a Half Moon and a Dragon. Can anyone help identify these marking with respect to who the end user(s) were.

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Alex.K

Can anyone help identify these marking with respect to who the end user(s) were.

Hello Alex, as I've said earlier on one of your other posts showing this sword, I really love the blade on it. Unfortunately the decorations are of the generic Solingen 'talismanic' style popular before the end of the 18th-century, that are not attributable to any specific unit or end user. I've seen them on a number of different blades, mounted on hilts from various countries.