L-guard hussar/Polish sabers

P.Abrera · 19th August 2008, 01:31 AM

Can anyone share any examples of sabers with L-shaped open guards? It's a form I've seen in many sketches and diagrams but not many actual examples of. As I understand it, it's more of a 17th c style? Is it a distinctly Polish form?

Some information from those familiar in this field would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Jim McDougall · 19th August 2008, 08:42 PM

I have been hoping that Michal would be responding to this, as he is resoundingly the authority in this field with his work in the National Museum in Krakow. He also is the author of the magnificent work (posted on our site) "Eastern Influences on Polish Arms" (2007).

I have always been very interested in Polish sabres, beginning many years ago with fascination with the Polish "Winged Hussars" prompted by the classic work on them by Professor Zygulski. While I am hoping that someone will post examples here of these distinctive 'L' hilt sabres, I hope everyone will indulge my usual compulsion to find information on them.

In "Cut and Thrust Weapons" (Eduard Wagner, 1967, Prague), on p.212, the author shows one of these L guard sabres as Polish 17th century, and in text on p.204, indicates that "...the perpandicular bar at the end of the right arm of the crossguard gives an indication of the later development of the curved guard common on sabres of the hussars of the 18th and 19th c.".
On p.400 (plate 30) an illustration of an Austrian version of one of these is shown as of late 17th century, suggesting the possible influence of the earlier Polish versions.

In the excavations of the battlefield at Beresteczko where the Polish defeated Cossacks in 1651, there were a large number of items of the Cossacks found including swords. Of these there were a number of those L guard sabres, and it should be noted that the Zaporozhian Cossacks in the Ukraine were primarily of Polish-Lithuanian descent, still quite influenced in varying degree with equally varying forms of contact. It is quite possible, if not likely, that these L guard sabres were captured from the Polish in some of those contacts.

While it is suggested that these L guards were superceded by closed stirrup hilt or D shape guards, I did find one example shown in a Polish museum catalog that was silver hilted with fishskin grip and seemed to be more of ceremonial or parade quality, and stated of 18th century.

In discovering whether this style guard was a Polish innovation, it should be noted that the presence of Venice in trade contact was quite prevalent in southern Polish centers such as Lvov and Krakow in 16th c. In reviewing the swept up knuckleguard of L shape, this feature is seen in developing Italian sword hilts from the 15th and into 16th c.
The Polish-Hungarian style sabres with open hilts and unusually wide quillons on the straight crossguards were predominant in those times as these open hilt sabres superceded the standard straight broadswords through Eastern influences. It would seem that developing sword making centers in Poland likely adopted the style of the L guard to thier sabres from Italian fashion.

P.Abrera · 20th August 2008, 07:50 AM

Thanks Jim, very helpful leads to study up on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I did find one example shown in a Polish museum catalog that was silver hilted with fishskin grip and seemed to be more of ceremonial or parade quality, and stated of 18th century.

The "parade" saber from the cover of a museum catalogue you describe is one of the few photographic examples I've found. Like you, I look forward to any other exmples others might care to share.

kronckew · 20th August 2008, 04:43 PM

a picture saves a thousand words.

do you mean like this 16-17c. magyar Végvári szablya

(this is a modern repro based on a museum piece in hungary)

Jim McDougall · 21st August 2008, 12:48 AM

Thanks very much Kronckew!! That is indeed a well carried out representation of the sabres we're talking about. Very pretty!

P.Abrera · 21st August 2008, 10:53 AM

Yup, thats a good one. Thatnks for sharing

I like the assymetry of the guard's thick/thin sections. Very nice. Does it belong to you kronckew?

I believe this is the "parade" saber we spoke of?

19th August 2008, 01:31 AM	#1
P.Abrera Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20	L-guard hussar/Polish sabers Can anyone share any examples of sabers with L-shaped open guards? It's a form I've seen in many sketches and diagrams but not many actual examples of. As I understand it, it's more of a 17th c style? Is it a distinctly Polish form? Some information from those familiar in this field would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Last edited by P.Abrera; 19th August 2008 at 01:42 AM.

20th August 2008, 04:43 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	a picture saves a thousand words. do you mean like this 16-17c. magyar Végvári szablya (this is a modern repro based on a museum piece in hungary) Last edited by kronckew; 20th August 2008 at 05:03 PM.

19th August 2008, 08:42 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	I have been hoping that Michal would be responding to this, as he is resoundingly the authority in this field with his work in the National Museum in Krakow. He also is the author of the magnificent work (posted on our site) "Eastern Influences on Polish Arms" (2007). I have always been very interested in Polish sabres, beginning many years ago with fascination with the Polish "Winged Hussars" prompted by the classic work on them by Professor Zygulski. While I am hoping that someone will post examples here of these distinctive 'L' hilt sabres, I hope everyone will indulge my usual compulsion to find information on them. In "Cut and Thrust Weapons" (Eduard Wagner, 1967, Prague), on p.212, the author shows one of these L guard sabres as Polish 17th century, and in text on p.204, indicates that "...the perpandicular bar at the end of the right arm of the crossguard gives an indication of the later development of the curved guard common on sabres of the hussars of the 18th and 19th c.". On p.400 (plate 30) an illustration of an Austrian version of one of these is shown as of late 17th century, suggesting the possible influence of the earlier Polish versions. In the excavations of the battlefield at Beresteczko where the Polish defeated Cossacks in 1651, there were a large number of items of the Cossacks found including swords. Of these there were a number of those L guard sabres, and it should be noted that the Zaporozhian Cossacks in the Ukraine were primarily of Polish-Lithuanian descent, still quite influenced in varying degree with equally varying forms of contact. It is quite possible, if not likely, that these L guard sabres were captured from the Polish in some of those contacts. While it is suggested that these L guards were superceded by closed stirrup hilt or D shape guards, I did find one example shown in a Polish museum catalog that was silver hilted with fishskin grip and seemed to be more of ceremonial or parade quality, and stated of 18th century. In discovering whether this style guard was a Polish innovation, it should be noted that the presence of Venice in trade contact was quite prevalent in southern Polish centers such as Lvov and Krakow in 16th c. In reviewing the swept up knuckleguard of L shape, this feature is seen in developing Italian sword hilts from the 15th and into 16th c. The Polish-Hungarian style sabres with open hilts and unusually wide quillons on the straight crossguards were predominant in those times as these open hilt sabres superceded the standard straight broadswords through Eastern influences. It would seem that developing sword making centers in Poland likely adopted the style of the L guard to thier sabres from Italian fashion.

21st August 2008, 12:48 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Thanks very much Kronckew!! That is indeed a well carried out representation of the sabres we're talking about. Very pretty!

21st August 2008, 10:53 AM	#6
P.Abrera Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20	Yup, thats a good one. Thatnks for sharing I like the assymetry of the guard's thick/thin sections. Very nice. Does it belong to you kronckew? I believe this is the "parade" saber we spoke of?