Mongolian (?) sword

Evgeny_K · 27th July 2023, 06:14 PM

Dear colleagues,
What do you think about this sword from Eastern part of Siberia?
Total lenght is about 85 cm. Looks like it was in fire.

werecow · 27th July 2023, 10:29 PM

It strikes me as a yanmaodao or maybe a liuyedao (see link and attached example from mandarinmansion; 1st picture subscripted "A 17th century yànmáodāo", second "A 17th-century liuyedao" and 3rd "An 18th-century liuyedao") but I have never seen a confirmed Mongolian sword so I can't speak to the origin.

Ren Ren · 28th July 2023, 05:09 AM

I will write here, too, as in the Russian forum. This is a Chinese or Manchu sword "yanmaodao" with fittings in "fangshi" style. 17-18 centuries, "The era of the three great Manchu emperors."

Evgeny_K · 28th July 2023, 10:32 AM

Thank you, gents!
Ren Ren, unfortunately, I did not see the relevant thread (otherwise I would not put it up for discussion). Thank you!

drac2k · 28th July 2023, 02:47 PM

Thank you for posting your elegant sword. Do you that it might be worth doing a minor restoration on the handle? A couple of slabs of wood and maybe someone who wraps Japanese sword handles could secure them; nothing invasive like drilling or using epoxy to fasten them.

ausjulius · 10th August 2023, 03:39 AM

The sword is chinese made. The manchus and mongols quickly began purchasing swords from whoever the conquered. Manchus swords and knives were of a mongolian type when they invaded and conquered the chinese withing 50 years their weapons morphed tk chinese looking weapons creatong a hybrid, like the arm you see, chinese early manchu weapons ha e writong on them in manchurian and mongolian. After some time you start to see more and more chinese ideograms. Manchis were a tiny nomadic mongolised tungustic ethnic group, smaller than mongols many times. China had 100s pf millions of people an invader will not last long there without being consumed but the population, just as with india.. The invaders never outlast the locals but they leave some subtil influence.
There is some example of actuial manchu and mongol swords in chinese museums but they are rare. Think more of an almost straight shamshir with a crossguard and a metal tonku at the ricasso to assist in retention in the sheath. Laker mongols eslecially dzhungars liked to use persian and uzbek and uyghur made shamshir in the 1600s and so very curved swords are erroniously associated with mongols and manchus in chinese culture. In the same way westerners asslciate a wide bladed "scimitar" with arabs and turks.. (in the 1600s the italians torta was sold in huge numbers to laventine arabs and north african arabs and in that time it became a depiction of middle easterners swords vs european swords.. Even though it was a european sword) sp in the chinese depiction the nomads all have very curved swords. Have seen severapersian and uzbek shamshiin museum collections attributed to the manchus too so the trade in these swords probably was vast among the nomads.

On any account the nomadic people just purchased whatever swords were on hand if they couldnt make their ow fast enough and when theconquered people the locals made their arms.
Sword making among mongols has been dead for many centuries atleast among the khalkha mongols and the buryats, guns and traded swords replaced local products. Tibetian swords were also commonly traded from lake kokonur to mongolia and manchuria too. Tebitan lamas and traders had a broad network

27th July 2023, 06:14 PM	#1
Evgeny_K Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 208	Mongolian (?) sword Dear colleagues, What do you think about this sword from Eastern part of Siberia? Total lenght is about 85 cm. Looks like it was in fire. Attached Images

27th July 2023, 10:29 PM	#2
werecow Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Leiden, NL Posts: 498	It strikes me as a yanmaodao or maybe a liuyedao (see link and attached example from mandarinmansion; 1st picture subscripted "A 17th century yànmáodāo", second "A 17th-century liuyedao" and 3rd "An 18th-century liuyedao") but I have never seen a confirmed Mongolian sword so I can't speak to the origin. Attached Images

28th July 2023, 05:09 AM	#3
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 374	I will write here, too, as in the Russian forum. This is a Chinese or Manchu sword "yanmaodao" with fittings in "fangshi" style. 17-18 centuries, "The era of the three great Manchu emperors."

28th July 2023, 10:32 AM	#4
Evgeny_K Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 208	Thank you, gents! Ren Ren, unfortunately, I did not see the relevant thread (otherwise I would not put it up for discussion). Thank you!

28th July 2023, 02:47 PM	#5
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Thank you for posting your elegant sword. Do you that it might be worth doing a minor restoration on the handle? A couple of slabs of wood and maybe someone who wraps Japanese sword handles could secure them; nothing invasive like drilling or using epoxy to fasten them.

10th August 2023, 03:39 AM	#6
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 422	The sword is chinese made. The manchus and mongols quickly began purchasing swords from whoever the conquered. Manchus swords and knives were of a mongolian type when they invaded and conquered the chinese withing 50 years their weapons morphed tk chinese looking weapons creatong a hybrid, like the arm you see, chinese early manchu weapons ha e writong on them in manchurian and mongolian. After some time you start to see more and more chinese ideograms. Manchis were a tiny nomadic mongolised tungustic ethnic group, smaller than mongols many times. China had 100s pf millions of people an invader will not last long there without being consumed but the population, just as with india.. The invaders never outlast the locals but they leave some subtil influence. There is some example of actuial manchu and mongol swords in chinese museums but they are rare. Think more of an almost straight shamshir with a crossguard and a metal tonku at the ricasso to assist in retention in the sheath. Laker mongols eslecially dzhungars liked to use persian and uzbek and uyghur made shamshir in the 1600s and so very curved swords are erroniously associated with mongols and manchus in chinese culture. In the same way westerners asslciate a wide bladed "scimitar" with arabs and turks.. (in the 1600s the italians torta was sold in huge numbers to laventine arabs and north african arabs and in that time it became a depiction of middle easterners swords vs european swords.. Even though it was a european sword) sp in the chinese depiction the nomads all have very curved swords. Have seen severapersian and uzbek shamshiin museum collections attributed to the manchus too so the trade in these swords probably was vast among the nomads. On any account the nomadic people just purchased whatever swords were on hand if they couldnt make their ow fast enough and when theconquered people the locals made their arms. Sword making among mongols has been dead for many centuries atleast among the khalkha mongols and the buryats, guns and traded swords replaced local products. Tibetian swords were also commonly traded from lake kokonur to mongolia and manchuria too. Tebitan lamas and traders had a broad network