Gustav's Discovery

[A. G. Maisey]

I have opened this thread in the hope that we may be able to concentrate on these very interesting images that Gustav provided in this previous thread:-

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=22932&page=1

In the foundation thread for this new thread we had a long circular discussion that seemed to me a bit counter-productive, even though I was a part of it, by opening this new thread my hope is that we can move forward without the baggage of previous discussion..

Gustav has identified an element of the greneng that is found in a small number of old Javanese and possibly Balinese keris. He tells us that this element seems to have virtually disappeared in keris made after about 1700. Initially he thought that this element did not appear in Balinese keris, but after further searching he discovered an element in a Balinese keris, that is very probably from the 1800's, that he believes is the same form as the element found in the older pre-1700 kerises.

I can verify that this element is one that I have not seen in any recent keris.I cannot do much more than that, because until Gustav directed his focus to this element and produced his images I regarded this unusual element of the greneng as just another greneng variation, of which we have an uncountable number.

But this variation is different. At least 5 of Gustav's 6 examples do show a related and clearly intentional form. The makers who put this element into the greneng did so for a reason. In my experience, when a motif is used in the same way, by a number of people, over an extended period, this is done for a reason. In the context of the keris in Jawa that reason is most likely to be because the motif has the nature of a symbol.

But what does that symbol mean?

The symbolism of some of the other elements of keris design is already clear, but this newly revealed symbol has been overlooked until now, probably because it is so seldom seen.

Symbolism in the Javanese keris can probably be divided into several categories;- indigenous Javanese, Hindu Javanese, Buddhist Javanese, Islamic Javanese.

Here below are six images of keris with the variant element indicated.

It might be a useful and interesting exercise if each of us searched relevant data bases, both online and traditional hard copy, and attempted to align the indicated greneng element with an appropriate form from one of the categories I have given above. That could be the start. If we are successful in finding something from the given categories that does align with the variant greneng element we then have the job of interpreting the intent in placing this variant element into the greneng.

This is not back-breaking research work, it does not need the ability to read foreign languages, it does not require either high intelligence or a master's degree in anthropology. All that is necessary is patience and the ability to match forms.

Have fun.

[kai]

Thanks, Alan!

At least 5 of Gustav's 6 examples do show a related and clearly intentional form.

Please specify which one you hesitate to place into this grouping and why! I assume #4 because the 3 elements exhibit some variation/inconsistencies (possibly to be explained by wear since the garap looks like quality craftsmanship?). It's certainly interesting that the same "rhythm" has survived into considerably later periods.

Gustav, can you add any additional info on this piece? (The TM does not reveal any details/provenance...)

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Kai, #4.

I have disregarded the enhancement in the nunut position, I'm only looking at the single peak between the ron dha, ri pandan & kanyut, like this, reading from left to right:- ron dha, unidentified, ri pandan, kanyut. The ri pandan forms a part of the ron dha, then we have an upright element, then there is another ri pandan, followed by the kanyut.If we read this as a three part element it means we are taking from the ron dha, maybe this is OK, there is a lot of dualism in Jawa/Bali symbolism, maybe its OK to double up on usage, also, maybe not, but in any case that single upright in the middle is probably intended to be understood in the sense of Siwa.

Bali is "the Land of Three", as Murni and Copeland put it "everything comes in threes in Bali", the use of ornamentation, symbolism, motifs as three part elements is extremely common. If we link that to the fact that this is a much younger blade than Gustav's other examples, I think that it is stretching things a bit to include this late Bali motif with these others from an earlier time. Maybe it belongs, maybe not, but right now I intend to put it in the pending tray. It might be able to be read as a three part element, but maybe not, and if not, I would assume that it is Siwa symbolism.

Since I opened this thread I've been browsing books, as I write, my feeling is that we might be looking at either one of two things:- Siwa symbolism, or an obscure way of writing om. I emphasise "feeling", no solid evidence, only shape similarities in a lot of different places.

[rasdan]

Hi everybody,

I am actually quite busy right now, but the attraction is too strong for me not to participate, so just a quick one. I am unsure if this makes sense or not. This is just a quick observation, so most likely it wont stand to close scrutiny.

I see the greneng on the kerises presented here in a slightly different way. To start with, IMHO earlier greneng started with a notched ri pandan. This notch was then eroded away and later pandai keris copied the eroded version creating a Dha with a “bump” version Ri Pandan. And to the extreme version, the Dha no longer have a Ri Pandan and it looks like the letter C.

Usually, Dha is placed after a thingil and is cut slightly lower than the thingil. What we are seeing on the keris posted here are probably the Dha with “bump” Ri pandan but were cut at the same level of the thingil and this makes it looks like it is an extra and wide thingil. This is probably a style used by the north coast keris makers. (Figure 1, 2 & 3)

There’s another variant that were normally on much later Javanese keris is that an extra dha were cut on top of the thingil. (Figure 3.1) And on much later Balinese keris the dha is at normal position and the “NorthCoast” higher Dha position gets modified into another thingil (Figure 5) or into another element (Figure 4) making it three elements.

I am unsure if keris in Figure 6 has an notched Dha in the middle or a gap. If it is a notched dha, then what I had said above is probably wrong assuming that the type of Dha used on a keris should be consistently shaped and unless keris in Figure 6 a slightly later Balinese keris.

Sorry if what I write doesn’t make sense.

p/s: Sorry, I have uploaded figures according to the sequence, but somehow it comes out in random order.

[rasdan]

By the way, probably this formation in front of the gandik is also a dha? If this is so, then we might have an explanation on the purpose of the lambe gajah.

[kai]

By the way, probably this formation in front of the gandik is also a dha? If this is so, then we might have an explanation on the purpose of the lambe gajah.

Interesting thought, Rasdan. However, its contours are usually different from the real ron dha. Thus, I don't think it is the intended meaning.

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Sorry, I have uploaded figures according to the sequence, but somehow it comes out in random order.

After selecting the first pic, hit upload. Then the next, etc.

If uploaded separately, pics stay in sequence.

Regards,
Kai

[drdavid]

Dear experts
for those of us with less knowledge it would help greatly when you introduce a less common keris term if you can identify on a picture that element or at least give a brief description. For example in this discussion ri pandan is a new term to me and it is not on the illustration http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisdiagram.html that I use most frequently
thanks
Dr D