what is your view on reproductions?

chevalier · 12th July 2008, 05:22 PM

i own 2 reproductions (a filipino sansibar sword and a 1796 LCS)

i was just curious about an antique collector's view on repros.

i would think for some swords such as the various viking swords, repros would be the only way to go if you wanted something you could use, (ive never seen an original viking sword in very good condition)

anyways im just curious as to what the majority of people here think about them.

Lew · 12th July 2008, 06:00 PM

Traditionally made pieces are fine with me for training and cutting tests I would not want to risk ruining an antique blade or have the blade fly out of the hilt due old dried up resin or glue.

Lew

Atlantia · 12th July 2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevalier

i own 2 reproductions (a filipino sansibar sword and a 1796 LCS)

i was just curious about an antique collector's view on repros.

i would think for some swords such as the various viking swords, repros would be the only way to go if you wanted something you could use, (ive never seen an original viking sword in very good condition)

anyways im just curious as to what the majority of people here think about them.

Well, I like indo-perisan stuff especially the armour and helmets, and to be brutally honest 9 out of 10 of the helmets I see on ebay are late 20thC but are stilll described as '18th/19th century' this goes for a fair percentage of the daggers and axes and even a few of the swords etc.
My view is that if you can buy a modern or modern-ish weapon which is produced in the same way as the originals for a quarter of the price a reasonable antique one would cost (if you can even find an original) then great, and I'm happy to have a mixture of old and 'new' in my collection. I just wish people would be a little more honest when selling as I still see far too many inexperienced collectors getting the shaft.
So, authentic reproductions are great, as long as you know what you're getting.

VANDOO · 12th July 2008, 06:09 PM

THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT, SOME WOULD CONSIDER ANY NEWLY MADE REPLICA AS JUNK AND WOULD ONLY CONSIDER BUYING THE BEST QUALITY AUTHENTIC EXAMPLES. IF YOU COLLECT IN THIS FASHON YOU MUST HAVE A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY OR BE CONTENT TO PERHAPS GET LUCKY ONE OR TWO TIMES IN YOUR LIFE.
SOME ONLY COLLECT NEWLY MADE EDGED WEAPONS BY THE MASTERS OF OUR AGE ,THESE TWO WAYS OF COLLECTING JUST ABOUT GAURANTEE YOU WILL GET TOP QUALITY AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK AND MOST LIKELY MAKE A PROFIT WHEN YOU SELL.
I COLLECT IN MANY AREAS AND LIKE TO HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THE MANY FORMS AVAILABLE OFTEN THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE DUE TO A LACK OF EXAMPLES FOR SALE OR THE HIGH COST OF SUCH EXAMPLES. SO I DO BUY REPLICAS IF THEY ARE WELL MADE AND ARE A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF THE WEAPON AND I LIKE THEIR LOOK. THE CHANCES OF GETTING YOUR MONEY BACK OR MAKEING A PROFIT WHEN YOU SELL ARE NOT GOOD ON SUCH ITEMS SO YOU MUST GET YOUR MONEYS WORTH BY ENJOYING THE ITEM AND PERHAPS USING IT FOR TRAINING OR DISPLAY/ DECOR.
I PERSONALLY COLLECT FOR FUN NOT TO PROFIT BUT DO PREFER TO MAKE A PROFIT IF I SELL WHICH HAPPENS VERY SELDOM

SO ENJOY COLLECTING AND DO IT YOUR WAY AND DON'T WORRY WHAT THE OTHER GUY THINKS.

ONE OF MY FUN COLLECTIONS IS A GUN COLLECTION WHICH IS OF THE ONLY TYPE GUN HATERS MIGHT APPROVE (WATER GUNS) YOU WOULD BE AMAZED AT THE MANY DESIGNS, TYPES AND SIZES THAT HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE OVER THE YEARS.

chevalier · 12th July 2008, 06:36 PM

for those of you who like the highest quality reproductions:

http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/Sandata.html

the best made filipino weapons i have used. extremely high craftsmanship, made in the philippines, they come razor sharp and very very tough.

Rick · 12th July 2008, 06:46 PM

I'd posit that those are not reproductions at all; rather they are the result of the continuation of a long standing history of blade making in the Philippines .

salaghati · 12th July 2008, 07:36 PM

reproduction is okay. Antique trade sweeps out that cultural artifacts of some cultural communities.

Atlantia · 12th July 2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'd posit that those are not reproductions at all; rather they are the result of the continuation of a long standing history of blade making in the Philippines .

Couldn't agree more Rick.
Same with the stuff I buy, one chap I deal with's family have made weapons for 300 years!
It's difficult to label such items, more continuation items than just reproductions.

There's also a lot of crap out there of course *cough*china*cough* but who would deny the legitimacy of a fine modern handmade weapon made by a master smith? These things are the 'genuine antiques' of the future. I'm proud to have some beautiful examples of modern work in my collection.

Henk · 12th July 2008, 08:40 PM

If made in the traditional way, nothing is wrong with a new made piece.
I bought during a holiday in Sweden a viking knife made as a reconstruction of a knife found in a burial place. A very well made knife of high quality and razor sharp.
Just as said, as long as one knows its not antique but made in the traditional way, it's no problem. I cann't buy a real viking knife, so I'm very happy with this one.

kai · 12th July 2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

I'd posit that those are not reproductions at all; rather they are the result of the continuation of a long standing history of blade making in the Philippines .

I beg to differ: I wouldn't even call those "Moroesque" pieces reproductions at all (much less genuine Moro pieces): None of the 7 kris-like objects offered are anything close to genuine pieces (or even recent work coming out of Mindanao). That "kampilan" has the hilt on backwards - that just shows an inacceptable degree of ignorance IMNSHO. Maybe these are functional swords which can be used to do some real slashing and stabbing, fine. However, if they even can't get the shape right, would anybody assume that the balance and other functional details are anything close to original pieces? If I'm interested in a reproduction (rather than some modern wallhanger or fantasy piece) I want it to be a true reproduction done by someone who really knows and understands genuine pieces and their details - not something which looks somehow similar done by some Jack-of-all-trades...

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 12th July 2008, 09:06 PM

Okay, I'll accept that Kai .

You are right .

The Moro pieces are indeed more like interpretations by a non-Moro smith .
Let's toss them out .

The Filipino pieces though seem to be more familiar to the makers .
I guess my point was that blademaking has a long tradition in the P.I. and this fact would negate these as true reproductions compared to say Arms and Armor's swords .

12th July 2008, 05:22 PM	#1
chevalier Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 119	what is your view on reproductions? i own 2 reproductions (a filipino sansibar sword and a 1796 LCS) i was just curious about an antique collector's view on repros. i would think for some swords such as the various viking swords, repros would be the only way to go if you wanted something you could use, (ive never seen an original viking sword in very good condition) anyways im just curious as to what the majority of people here think about them.

12th July 2008, 06:00 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Traditionally made pieces are fine with me for training and cutting tests I would not want to risk ruining an antique blade or have the blade fly out of the hilt due old dried up resin or glue. Lew

12th July 2008, 06:09 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT, SOME WOULD CONSIDER ANY NEWLY MADE REPLICA AS JUNK AND WOULD ONLY CONSIDER BUYING THE BEST QUALITY AUTHENTIC EXAMPLES. IF YOU COLLECT IN THIS FASHON YOU MUST HAVE A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY OR BE CONTENT TO PERHAPS GET LUCKY ONE OR TWO TIMES IN YOUR LIFE. SOME ONLY COLLECT NEWLY MADE EDGED WEAPONS BY THE MASTERS OF OUR AGE ,THESE TWO WAYS OF COLLECTING JUST ABOUT GAURANTEE YOU WILL GET TOP QUALITY AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK AND MOST LIKELY MAKE A PROFIT WHEN YOU SELL. I COLLECT IN MANY AREAS AND LIKE TO HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF THE MANY FORMS AVAILABLE OFTEN THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE DUE TO A LACK OF EXAMPLES FOR SALE OR THE HIGH COST OF SUCH EXAMPLES. SO I DO BUY REPLICAS IF THEY ARE WELL MADE AND ARE A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF THE WEAPON AND I LIKE THEIR LOOK. THE CHANCES OF GETTING YOUR MONEY BACK OR MAKEING A PROFIT WHEN YOU SELL ARE NOT GOOD ON SUCH ITEMS SO YOU MUST GET YOUR MONEYS WORTH BY ENJOYING THE ITEM AND PERHAPS USING IT FOR TRAINING OR DISPLAY/ DECOR. I PERSONALLY COLLECT FOR FUN NOT TO PROFIT BUT DO PREFER TO MAKE A PROFIT IF I SELL WHICH HAPPENS VERY SELDOM SO ENJOY COLLECTING AND DO IT YOUR WAY AND DON'T WORRY WHAT THE OTHER GUY THINKS. ONE OF MY FUN COLLECTIONS IS A GUN COLLECTION WHICH IS OF THE ONLY TYPE GUN HATERS MIGHT APPROVE (WATER GUNS) YOU WOULD BE AMAZED AT THE MANY DESIGNS, TYPES AND SIZES THAT HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE OVER THE YEARS.

12th July 2008, 06:36 PM	#5
chevalier Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 119	for those of you who like the highest quality reproductions: http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/Sandata.html the best made filipino weapons i have used. extremely high craftsmanship, made in the philippines, they come razor sharp and very very tough.

12th July 2008, 06:46 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	I'd posit that those are not reproductions at all; rather they are the result of the continuation of a long standing history of blade making in the Philippines .

12th July 2008, 07:36 PM	#7
salaghati Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Orange County Posts: 3	reproduction is okay. Antique trade sweeps out that cultural artifacts of some cultural communities.

12th July 2008, 08:40 PM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	If made in the traditional way, nothing is wrong with a new made piece. I bought during a holiday in Sweden a viking knife made as a reconstruction of a knife found in a burial place. A very well made knife of high quality and razor sharp. Just as said, as long as one knows its not antique but made in the traditional way, it's no problem. I cann't buy a real viking knife, so I'm very happy with this one.

12th July 2008, 09:06 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	Okay, I'll accept that Kai . You are right . The Moro pieces are indeed more like interpretations by a non-Moro smith . Let's toss them out . The Filipino pieces though seem to be more familiar to the makers . I guess my point was that blademaking has a long tradition in the P.I. and this fact would negate these as true reproductions compared to say Arms and Armor's swords .