Nimcha (?) with European Blade for Comments

[A.alnakkas]

Hello all,

I got this one today, was in a poor condition but cleaned it up. It could benefit from a polish I think.

The blade seems to be a European trade blade? There are some latin inscriptions on it. Some other inscriptions exist also but barely show..

The scabbard is beat up but the wood is solid. There are prints of what used to cover it, any idea how it used to look like??

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Lofty,
Interesting example which appears to be a sabre of the form which seems commonly held to be used by Bedouin tribes from the Negev into the Sinai Peninsula. As often discussed through the years the 'nimcha' term has been widely misapplied, and typically used by collectors for the Moroccan sabre with distinct guard configuration. From a semantics point of view of course, and as you know, it is easier to use the term in this parlance, I just mentioned it for the benefit of our wide range of non-participating readers, who scan our pages to learn more. As always I look forward to their joining us eventually. I am inclined to favor the descriptive term Bedouin sa'if.

The blade is as you note European and very well could be latter 18th, but probably 19th century, as these heavy sabre blades which entered these spheres via Red Sea trade in the 19th century were reused for often countless generations. The mounts are of course much more recent as evidenced by the screws etc.

The cursive script ligature, or more likely acrostic, is European and used often in acrostic sense to abbreviate a phrase or slogan, even perhaps an acronym for a particular group. I cannot see the letters properly but there seem to be four, so would not be initials.

These swords have a certain rugged charm to them as they reflect the fascinating character of the Bedouin tribes, who often anachronistically used these weapons well into the 20th century. This blade could very well have seen service in the WWI campaigns in these regions, as well as the long history of internecine warfare .
While many collectors might scoff at these rugged old warriors, you are astutely aware the colorful history they hold. Nicely done !

All the best,
Jim

[Atlantia]

Hi Lotfy,

Lovely sword!
Could the script read 'NOJA' or possibly even 'NOIA' and refer to the places Noja/Noia in Spain?

Just guessing of course.

Best
Gene

P.S. I suggest this because presumably there was much trade between Spain and North Africa?

[A.alnakkas]

hey,

Jim, when I made this topic, I remembered one made earlier by TVV which there was a discussion about the origin of these sabers. I guess we need to find a new term to describe them? Bedouin saber works just fine to me I am actually very happy they come from the Sinai region, as I was planning on having a saber from that region. Any idea how the scabbard used to look like in its better days? I wont touch it though I like the roughness of this piece.

I am a big fan of rugged beat up pieces.. Infact most of my collection is like that :P

Gene, There are other letters but they are faded and some barely even show. So cant be sure :-(

Thanks both,

Lotfy

[ariel]

I am looking at it and think ... South Aravian.... The Sinai/Negev beduin sabres do not have either D-guards or quillons. They also do not have the cavity at the top of the handle, which is a common feature of N. African or Aravian sabers. That being said, nothing is impossible: the whole area was in a constant flux of beduin tribes, and mixed forms are dime a dozen. Also, the fact I never saw one does not mean they do not exist. I like these rugged, crude and unostentatious weapons very much.
I have been given a present of a "real" beduin sword from the Negev, newly made: a bastardized version of a Turkish kilij ( handle and crossguard) and home made shamshir-like blade made on a grinding wheel. Nothing touristy about it, it was specially made as a present to a very respected doctor in gratitude for saving sheik son's life. Top of the line. That was the modern beduin impression of the luxury sword :-) Times are changing...

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Could the script read 'NOJA' or possibly even 'NOIA'

Hi Gene
I know that we have a different reading, it's well to compare several hypotheses
as far as a presentation of arguments come to support an allegation

here the same picture, processed to reveal what is not clear
I think, to read a "D"
friendly yours, all the best

à +

Dom

[Dom]

Hi my Brot.

I'm backing completely what said Jim,
it's not a "nimcha" even if the general shape for the handle remind a bit ...
it's manifestly, a "Saïf"

about the letters, the form of it, it's called "English form"
the 4 letters could be read as well as : " N D I A" ...
I can not imagine, that what do you suppose being erased,
could might be, ... be an "I"

anyway, I love his rough aspect, a "Saïf for a warrior" not for a court representation ...
and it has his scabbard, that for me I consider as important

MABROUK, and all the best

à +

Dom

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi my Brot.

I'm backing completely what said Jim,
it's not a "nimcha" even if the general shape for the handle remind a bit ...
it's manifestly, a "Saïf"

about the letters, the form of it, it's called "English form"
the 4 letters could be read as well as : " N D I A" ...
I can not imagine, that what do you suppose being erased,
could might be, ... be an "I"

anyway, I love his rough aspect, a "Saïf for a warrior" not for a court representation ...
and it has his scabbard, that for me I consider as important

MABROUK, and all the best

à +

Dom

Shukran shaikh Dom

Is there a way to bring out the faded letters?

[Dom]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Shukran shaikh Dom

Is there a way to bring out the faded letters?

Allah y barifik
yes, several ways
- with numeric camera, focus function, then with small computer program , inverse black and white
- with graphic pencil, after have put a paper sheet, pass over, and over ...
the light pressure you will give, will empathize the surface anomalies,
and should reveled what is in hollow
- more ... worst pass over the blade some printing ink, and then with a roll (smooth surface) and a paper sheet, made a ... print

even if it's a solution, I don't advise it, or in extreme solution

à +

Dom

[A.alnakkas]

Ariel, Thanks. I think the scabbard also has similarity to the scabbards on zanzibari nimchas but thats not conclusive.

Can you share photos of the saif that the bedouin gave to you? I have a Palastinian saif in my collection, looks alot like a normal badawi saif but abit more crude and with a broad blade.

Dom, Will try the camera thingy but being a cave man, I doubt I'll know how to do it...

[Richard G]

Dear Mr Alnakkas,
I would agree with Ariel in suggesting South Arabia. The blade and scabbard on their own look as if they could have come from a "Zanzibar" saif. If that is the case the scabbard covering could have been black asses skin shrunken onto thread laid in scrolls etc. to give an embossed effect, often seen on the scabbards of Omani quattaras. I know this because I had one once.
Regards
Richard

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Lofty and Dom, and Gene, interesting and well placed suggestion.
Lofty, Im not too sure of the scabbards on these and as far as I know, few survive. I am hoping that Sa'ar will come in on this as his knowledge on these is superb.

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Lofty,
Interesting example which appears to be a sabre of the form which seems commonly held to be used by Bedouin tribes from the Negev into the Sinai Peninsula. As often discussed through the years the 'nimcha' term has been widely misapplied, and typically used by collectors for the Moroccan sabre with distinct guard configuration. From a semantics point of view of course, and as you know, it is easier to use the term in this parlance, I just mentioned it for the benefit of our wide range of non-participating readers, who scan our pages to learn more. As always I look forward to their joining us eventually. I am inclined to favor the descriptive term Bedouin sa'if.

The blade is as you note European and very well could be latter 18th, but probably 19th century, as these heavy sabre blades which entered these spheres via Red Sea trade in the 19th century were reused for often countless generations. The mounts are of course much more recent as evidenced by the screws etc.

The cursive script ligature, or more likely acrostic, is European and used often in acrostic sense to abbreviate a phrase or slogan, even perhaps an acronym for a particular group. I cannot see the letters properly but there seem to be four, so would not be initials.

These swords have a certain rugged charm to them as they reflect the fascinating character of the Bedouin tribes, who often anachronistically used these weapons well into the 20th century. This blade could very well have seen service in the WWI campaigns in these regions, as well as the long history of internecine warfare .
While many collectors might scoff at these rugged old warriors, you are astutely aware the colorful history they hold. Nicely done !

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim~ There is a lot of mis application of the term Nimcha. "Bedouin" I agree, is a far better description. Many like this can be seen in Yemen and I wonder if that was the production centre for rehilting(amongst others?). It occurred to me that the Moroccan Nimcha migrated in form overland and by sea trade routes to Zanzibar where it bounced out around the Zanzibar Hub; after some changes in hilt style. There is, however, a lot of fog surrounding its spread to Northern Bedouin groups in this form... I thought that the variant with the crossguard at #12 was more the Saudia style? (According to Butin) as well as Palestinian ...and Syrian.

Rather as a romantic note on the possibility of influence coming from quite another direction ~ Sri Lanka ~ I commend the reader to see the thread by Kurt [B]Oman, Morocco or Zanzibar?B] on Forum.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[carlos]

Beatiful sword, similar one I posted in forum years ago.
Congratulations
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=144

carlos

[A.alnakkas]

Thanks Carlos! The one you have is a good example.

Ibrahim, reason why I think the badawi saif is Palastinian is the scabbard. But the hilt style is Saudi with minor variations in the silver strap and pommel cap.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you for the replies Lofty and Ibrahiim.
I think the sa'if in #12 at top with chainguard is most likely Hadhramauti in accord with Elgood's notes in "Arabian Arms and Armour", which has sa'if with varying hilt forms and silverwork with chainguards. The sharply canted pommel cap seems to concur with other Arabian swords seen in that reference also.
The 'Zanzibari' reference to the second sword (#12) with raised ring crossguard characteristic of these 'nimchas' in popular classification and per Buttin does seem to fall in line with the sword Lofty has posted in comparing the hilt furnishings. I would be inclined to agree that typically the Bedouin or 'Palestinian' sabres do not have knuckleguards, and the hangers and sabres of Yemen do usually have the triple roundels in the grip. But here is the rub in properly identifying these blades which come from the Red Sea trade and have been refurbished through generations.

Zanzibari swords were apparantly highly imported in Yemen from there, the diffusion between Yemeni entrepots and Sinai trade centers would be quite understandable.

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Thanks Carlos! The one you have is a good example.

Ibrahim, reason why I think the badawi saif is Palastinian is the scabbard. But the hilt style is Saudi with minor variations in the silver strap and pommel cap.

Salaams A.alnakkas ~ Point taken, however, on a broader note I think more explanation may be needed to/for the general reader on what is meant by bedawi and who the bedouin groups were etc... I have a map of Bedouin groups and will post in a day or two...

I think the diffusion of swords follows several trade routes by land and sea, pilgrimage routes and lastly bedouin movement... I tend to further subdevide Buttins vast grouping of Zanzibari Nimchas by splitting off several other named groups ie The Yemeni Nimcha, The Palestinian Nimcha and The Bedawi Nimcha. I think the Hawkshead better known as the Karabela, though not mentioned yet in thread, is simply another Nimcha.

The Red Sea was a peculiar place; The prevailing north wind was a big problem for shipping under sail. Before steam (and I think prior to the discovery of the lanteen sail) most goods moving north were dropped at ports near the mouth of the Red Sea and vast camel trains did the rest. Movement of goods North and South was common place.

In 1869 everything changed with the opening of the Suez Canal as the volume of goods reached industrial proportions..both ways.

On the Palestinian sword am I right in assuming that it derived from the Zanzibar hub via Yemen and Arabia then rehilted in perhaps Jerusalem? Or do you think these swords came in from the Mediterranean more direct or perhaps off the Cairo hub?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.