Weird Mameluke sword

GrozaB · 27th April 2020, 06:40 PM

Picked up very strange Mameluke sword. Hilt is ivory with steel cross guard, I think is British mid 19th. But blade... Blade is straight, 33" long, 1.4" wide and 1/4" thick. Blade was brutally cleaned and I can see some small forging flaws, so I can assume it is hand forged, not machine made. Another thing is scabbards. It fits the blade perfectly and I'm pretty sure it is original to the blade. Scabbard looks 100% British to me. But I can't remember any 19th century British sword with such blade! At first I was thinking it is Swedish, they love this form, but all Swedish blades I know is diamond shaped and this one is convex...
Sword itself is most likely later compilation, but what is the blade origin? Maybe Scottish? Аny thoughts? Comments?

GrozaB · 27th April 2020, 09:02 PM

Found another one, kind of similar, clearly based on Scottish blade

MacCathain · 27th April 2020, 09:09 PM

The blade is a dead ringer for a circa 1840s U.S. militia officer's sword in my collection. The Ames-made blade is convex, the single central fuller appears to be the same length and breadth, and the drag on the scabbard seems to be identical. Yours lacks etching, but otherwise it seems a good fit.

GrozaB · 27th April 2020, 09:33 PM

Hm... You can be right on it. But all militia sword I saw had way smaller blades - usually 25-29" long, about 1-1.25" wide and twice lighter. This one is pretty massive and heavy - 2lbs without scabbard. Also scabbards on militia sword usually bit different - leather or brass with 3 rings.

MacCathain · 27th April 2020, 09:43 PM

I believe the shorter militia swords with leather scabbards are generally for NCOs. Hotspur knows these very well, so perhaps he can address them.

The officer's sword I posted has a 31 inch blade that is 1 inch wide at the ricasso. The narrow central fuller is about 12 inches long.

Both this example and another "full size" US militia officer's sword in my collection have all-metal scabbards.

Here's an ACW-vintage shot of Lt. Col. Charles Norton wearing the same sword.

GrozaB · 27th April 2020, 10:01 PM

Again, you probably right on blade origin. The central fuller on my blade is bit under 9". And whole sword handles like cutting, not thrusting weapon. Of course you can thrust with this one, but it is bit heavy and slow for the job. In handles more like palash or backsword.

Bryce · 28th April 2020, 12:01 AM

This style of blade was common om British 1798 pattern basket hilt swords and 1796 heavy cavalry officer dress swords. I haven't come across one mounted on a mameluke hilt before.
Cheers,
Bryce

27th April 2020, 06:40 PM	#1
GrozaB Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 32	Weird Mameluke sword Picked up very strange Mameluke sword. Hilt is ivory with steel cross guard, I think is British mid 19th. But blade... Blade is straight, 33" long, 1.4" wide and 1/4" thick. Blade was brutally cleaned and I can see some small forging flaws, so I can assume it is hand forged, not machine made. Another thing is scabbards. It fits the blade perfectly and I'm pretty sure it is original to the blade. Scabbard looks 100% British to me. But I can't remember any 19th century British sword with such blade! At first I was thinking it is Swedish, they love this form, but all Swedish blades I know is diamond shaped and this one is convex... Sword itself is most likely later compilation, but what is the blade origin? Maybe Scottish? Аny thoughts? Comments? Attached Images

27th April 2020, 09:02 PM	#2
GrozaB Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 32	Found another one, kind of similar, clearly based on Scottish blade Attached Images

27th April 2020, 09:09 PM	#3
MacCathain Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 66	The blade is a dead ringer for a circa 1840s U.S. militia officer's sword in my collection. The Ames-made blade is convex, the single central fuller appears to be the same length and breadth, and the drag on the scabbard seems to be identical. Yours lacks etching, but otherwise it seems a good fit. Attached Images

27th April 2020, 09:43 PM	#5
MacCathain Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 66	I believe the shorter militia swords with leather scabbards are generally for NCOs. Hotspur knows these very well, so perhaps he can address them. The officer's sword I posted has a 31 inch blade that is 1 inch wide at the ricasso. The narrow central fuller is about 12 inches long. Both this example and another "full size" US militia officer's sword in my collection have all-metal scabbards. Here's an ACW-vintage shot of Lt. Col. Charles Norton wearing the same sword. Attached Images

28th April 2020, 12:01 AM	#7
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 187	This style of blade was common om British 1798 pattern basket hilt swords and 1796 heavy cavalry officer dress swords. I haven't come across one mounted on a mameluke hilt before. Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

27th April 2020, 09:33 PM	#4
GrozaB Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 32	Hm... You can be right on it. But all militia sword I saw had way smaller blades - usually 25-29" long, about 1-1.25" wide and twice lighter. This one is pretty massive and heavy - 2lbs without scabbard. Also scabbards on militia sword usually bit different - leather or brass with 3 rings.

27th April 2020, 10:01 PM	#6
GrozaB Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 32	Again, you probably right on blade origin. The central fuller on my blade is bit under 9". And whole sword handles like cutting, not thrusting weapon. Of course you can thrust with this one, but it is bit heavy and slow for the job. In handles more like palash or backsword.