Help with translation - Kard with jade hilt

Gonzoadler · 5th October 2020, 08:25 PM

Hello,
I have this ottoman Kard since some years, it was my first bigger "investment" for an edged weapon and I'm still proud to own it. Unfortunately I'm not able to decypher the text on the wootz blade. Maybe someone could help me?
It would be very interesting for me.
I'm not sure if there is a year/date in the text but I estimate the age about 1800.
The velvet scabbard has nice silver mountings. Especially the hilt is interesting. It is made of double-coloured jade.

Length overall: 35cm
Without scabbard: 31cm
Blade: 18.5cm

Regards,
Robin

ariel · 6th October 2020, 04:05 AM

I think there is 1010 in the middle of the inscription and “Allah” at the end.
Kwiatek to the rescue!

Why do you think it is Ottoman? I would guess North Indian: there are quite a lot of those with gold-koftgari ferrules.

RAMBA · 6th October 2020, 09:36 AM

Looks North Indian Mughal work. Hopefully someone can translate.

mariusgmioc · 6th October 2020, 11:15 AM

Yep, North Indian and at least the blade from late 18th to early 19th century.

It definitely would benefit from some cleaning and etching.

Very nice piece!

PS: While the cartouche may look somehow Ottoman, it has to be remembered that this type of cartouches were common for the whole Ottoman-Persian-Mughal area. Also the cartouche, as well as the scabbard may be later works.

However, like Ariel has noticed, the front bolster with koftgari is rather typical Indian and gives a very good indication about the origins of the knife.
Also the fine watering pattern of the blade may be an indication of its Indian origin but that would become clearer with new etching.

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 03:12 PM

Hello,
thank you for your answers.
For me it is an ottoman Kard because of the shape (like a kitchen knife) and ottoman hallmarks on the silver mountings. One looks like a Tughra of an ottoman sultan. In my opinion the Koftgari is not especially indian. Furthermore there are some decoration elements, like a shell at the tip of the ferrule, which I often seen at ottoman daggers.
I don't think that the scabbard is much younger than the other parts of the dagger.

But the most important question is: What says the inscription?
Thank you ariel for your first advice.

I add some more photos of the inscription, the hallmarks and other details of the dagger. I hope they are helpful and nice to see.

Regards

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 03:13 PM

More photos:

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 03:15 PM

and more

:

Gonzoadler · 6th October 2020, 09:41 PM

Hmm, because of ariels hint I see that the inscription is turned upside down.
I add one more photo...
Any comments are welcome

mariusgmioc · 7th October 2020, 08:37 AM

Thank you for the additional photos!

You are right. The scabbard appears to have the Turgha mark which makes it quite certainly Ottoman.

Also the wootz patterning, with longer streaks (see photo) does not look like the typical Indian (which tends to have finer and more uniform watering pattern) but Persian, so the knife might indeed be Ottoman (since many Ottoman weapons were made using Persian blades).

Yet, the front bolster looks so much Indian...

5th October 2020, 08:25 PM	#1
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	Help with translation - Kard with jade hilt Hello, I have this ottoman Kard since some years, it was my first bigger "investment" for an edged weapon and I'm still proud to own it. Unfortunately I'm not able to decypher the text on the wootz blade. Maybe someone could help me? It would be very interesting for me. I'm not sure if there is a year/date in the text but I estimate the age about 1800. The velvet scabbard has nice silver mountings. Especially the hilt is interesting. It is made of double-coloured jade. Length overall: 35cm Without scabbard: 31cm Blade: 18.5cm Regards, Robin Attached Images

6th October 2020, 03:12 PM	#5
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	Hello, thank you for your answers. For me it is an ottoman Kard because of the shape (like a kitchen knife) and ottoman hallmarks on the silver mountings. One looks like a Tughra of an ottoman sultan. In my opinion the Koftgari is not especially indian. Furthermore there are some decoration elements, like a shell at the tip of the ferrule, which I often seen at ottoman daggers. I don't think that the scabbard is much younger than the other parts of the dagger. But the most important question is: What says the inscription? Thank you ariel for your first advice. I add some more photos of the inscription, the hallmarks and other details of the dagger. I hope they are helpful and nice to see. Regards Attached Images

6th October 2020, 03:13 PM	#6
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	More photos: Attached Images

6th October 2020, 03:15 PM	#7
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	and more : Attached Images

6th October 2020, 09:41 PM	#8
Gonzoadler Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Germany Posts: 244	Hmm, because of ariels hint I see that the inscription is turned upside down. I add one more photo... Any comments are welcome Attached Images

6th October 2020, 04:05 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think there is 1010 in the middle of the inscription and “Allah” at the end. Kwiatek to the rescue! Why do you think it is Ottoman? I would guess North Indian: there are quite a lot of those with gold-koftgari ferrules.

6th October 2020, 09:36 AM	#3
RAMBA Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 100	Looks North Indian Mughal work. Hopefully someone can translate.

6th October 2020, 11:15 AM	#4
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Yep, North Indian and at least the blade from late 18th to early 19th century. It definitely would benefit from some cleaning and etching. Very nice piece! PS: While the cartouche may look somehow Ottoman, it has to be remembered that this type of cartouches were common for the whole Ottoman-Persian-Mughal area. Also the cartouche, as well as the scabbard may be later works. However, like Ariel has noticed, the front bolster with koftgari is rather typical Indian and gives a very good indication about the origins of the knife. Also the fine watering pattern of the blade may be an indication of its Indian origin but that would become clearer with new etching.

7th October 2020, 08:37 AM	#9
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Thank you for the additional photos! You are right. The scabbard appears to have the Turgha mark which makes it quite certainly Ottoman. Also the wootz patterning, with longer streaks (see photo) does not look like the typical Indian (which tends to have finer and more uniform watering pattern) but Persian, so the knife might indeed be Ottoman (since many Ottoman weapons were made using Persian blades). Yet, the front bolster looks so much Indian... Attached Images Last edited by mariusgmioc; 7th October 2020 at 10:59 AM.