Sword I.D. Help Needed

Clubs & Arrows · 16th September 2008, 12:52 PM

Hello,
I picked up this sword in a collection recently, and was wondering if anyone in the forum could help me with it's origin. The overall length is 39 1/4" , with the blade accounting for 31 3/4" of the length. I can't find any marking on the piece at all. The leather covering over the wooden grip has seen better days. I collect Pacific Island weapons, so this is a little out of my range of collecting.

Thank you,
Joe

Ed · 16th September 2008, 01:24 PM

That is interesting.

The hilt has sort of an "alive" look.

I'd bet that it is decorative, 19th c. The blade though looks like it might be authentic. Sort of hard to tell without handling it.

Jim McDougall · 18th September 2008, 02:19 AM

I'm with Ed on this, it does have the look of 19th century interpretation of a rapier, using what appears to be a 19th century sabre blade. An attractive piece that might well be theatrical.

Thanks for posting it Joe, looks like it probably handles pretty well!

Best regards,
Jim

Ed · 18th September 2008, 02:45 AM

and another dratted "Urn" pommel

Paul Macdonald · 18th September 2008, 10:39 AM

Hi Folks,

Looks like a C19th stage sword to me.

The grip, pommel and quite possibly hilt appear to be C19th, and possibly with a cut down or ex-military blade. A bit difficult to be more specific or sure without handling and close examination.

All the best,

Macdonald

Marc · 18th September 2008, 12:06 PM

I agree, it looks like a mismatch of original, made up, and contemporary parts, trying to reproduce a 16tt-17th c. düssage - type weapon. As Paul said, pommel looks, at the best, later, the shell is made on the spot, the cross-block (a swordsmith friend of mine likes to call it "the spider", not a bad name) may be original... or not, and the blade could indeed easily be a 19th c. recycled military blade. It definitely would need a hands-on inspection to work out the details, but, as a whole, I agree that it seems a 19th. c product.

celtan · 28th September 2008, 03:59 PM

Hi Ed,

Saw today a few urn-pommels,

Wither's "World Swords": German c.1600 Two handed sword. German Two-handed Stoc. C. 1500, both in p. 18. German Executioner Sword c. 1680 p. 14. and a squared sided version on p. 16, set on a German Bastard Sword c. 1600.

In Bull's "An Historical Guide to Arms and Armor" there's another couple of these pesky beasties on p. 104 set in two German Two-handers of C. 1580.

I mean, there aren't two exactly alike, but the design and form is there, quite apparent.

Best

Manolo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed

and another dratted "Urn" pommel

16th September 2008, 12:52 PM	#1
Clubs & Arrows Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Gabriel Foothills, Southern California Posts: 94	Sword I.D. Help Needed Hello, I picked up this sword in a collection recently, and was wondering if anyone in the forum could help me with it's origin. The overall length is 39 1/4" , with the blade accounting for 31 3/4" of the length. I can't find any marking on the piece at all. The leather covering over the wooden grip has seen better days. I collect Pacific Island weapons, so this is a little out of my range of collecting. Thank you, Joe Attached Images

16th September 2008, 01:24 PM	#2
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 237	That is interesting. The hilt has sort of an "alive" look. I'd bet that it is decorative, 19th c. The blade though looks like it might be authentic. Sort of hard to tell without handling it.

18th September 2008, 02:19 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	I'm with Ed on this, it does have the look of 19th century interpretation of a rapier, using what appears to be a 19th century sabre blade. An attractive piece that might well be theatrical. Thanks for posting it Joe, looks like it probably handles pretty well! Best regards, Jim

18th September 2008, 02:45 AM	#4
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 237	and another dratted "Urn" pommel

18th September 2008, 10:39 AM	#5
Paul Macdonald Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 48	Hi Folks, Looks like a C19th stage sword to me. The grip, pommel and quite possibly hilt appear to be C19th, and possibly with a cut down or ex-military blade. A bit difficult to be more specific or sure without handling and close examination. All the best, Macdonald

18th September 2008, 12:06 PM	#6
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	I agree, it looks like a mismatch of original, made up, and contemporary parts, trying to reproduce a 16tt-17th c. düssage - type weapon. As Paul said, pommel looks, at the best, later, the shell is made on the spot, the cross-block (a swordsmith friend of mine likes to call it "the spider", not a bad name) may be original... or not, and the blade could indeed easily be a 19th c. recycled military blade. It definitely would need a hands-on inspection to work out the details, but, as a whole, I agree that it seems a 19th. c product.