Rusted 17th C persian shamshir within decayed scabbard

[celtan]

Hi Guys,

I have no idea of how to proceed. I usually advise others with similar problems to dip the whole thingamagig in a tube filled with cheap olive oil, and let it soak for a couple weeks. OTOH, this a (reported) 17th C weapon, and I'd like to know if there's something better that can be done.

This shamshir is heavily rusted within its scabbard, and the latter is also in poor shape. Seems it was found in a tomb somewhere. I'm leery of destroying it's green-blue lether scabbard, in the process of retrieving the blade.

OTOH, perhaps it can not be helped?

Any advice?

M

[sabertasche]

Interesting conundrum IMHO the focus is the sword, so I would sacifice the scabbard to save the sword but retain as much of the original materials as possible and document everything. Perhaps it is possible to replicate the scabbard using the old fittings once the blade has been liberated from the old scabbard?

G

[katana]

Hi Celtan,
olive oil is a good idea. I used a similar process to 'liberate' a very nice African dagger from an equally intricate scabbard (leather with woven reed patterning.)

I had the knife/scabbard standing up-right and introduced small amounts of olive oil around the mouth of the scabbard and left to 'stand'......many....many repeated doses later I was able to get a little 'movement'. Constant additions of oil and gentle applied pressure/ movement, eventually allowed the knife to be removed. Although the scabbard 'survived' the leather and reed work had become saturated in oil ....wrapping in absorbant paper removed a lot of this excess, but the oil had darkened the leather and lighter coloured woven reed decoration permanently.

The oil helps 'break up' the rust (between blade and scabbard), softens the leather a little (useful if the leather has dried out and shrunk) and provides lubrication for the blade to 'slide' out of the scabbard more easily.

Hope this helps

Kind Regards David

[celtan]

I guessed as much. I've seen olive oil darkening the metal of our flintlocks when used as preservative. Yet, its better to have a darkened leather than no leather at all...: )

Now, since the weapon is curved. I need to find a pliable thin container. Or a plastic tube/conduit than can be capped at its bottom end. Not too large, or I will need too large a volume of oil.

Gotta visit Home Depot, and get creative as I look at the stuff.

Best

Manuel

[Gavin Nugent]

Celtan,

Please grace us all with a couple of images of the sword as it currently stands, it would be very interesting to note how it sat in a tomb.

Gav

[celtan]

Sure thing, click on the thumbs for a larger image

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by sabertasche

Interesting conundrum IMHO the focus is the sword, so I would sacifice the scabbard to save the sword but retain as much of the original materials as possible and document everything. Perhaps it is possible to replicate the scabbard using the old fittings once the blade has been liberated from the old scabbard?

G

Thanks for the images Celtan

You have a job and a half ahead of you there. IMHO do not concern yourself too much with the scabbard, you have the sword as your objective and you have scabbard fittings too so modern marvels can be achieved.
Me, I'd be tempted to drill a few very small holes discreetly along the seam on the underside of the scabbard and use a fine dropper to fill with oil. There are bound to be places along the seam, that when pressed with your thumb will have points of give in them, this would be where I would start.
I'd be interest to see what others have to say and I certainly wish to see the sword once removed.

Gav

[celtan]

You are most welcome.

Will do. Thanks for contributing.

So, you actually advise me to use a syringe and lubricate from the inside, instead of simply dunking the whole weapon on an "oil bucket", so to speak?

What if I used a "Break-away" type of mineral oil instead. The kind that comes in pressurized cans, with a fine plastic canula , to loose frozen locks?

BTW, nice name...

Manuel

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by celtan

You are most welcome.

Will do. Thanks for contributing.

So, you actually advise me to use a syringe and lubricate from the inside, instead of simply dunking the whole weapon on an "oil bucket", so to speak?

What if I used a "Break-away" type of mineral oil instead. The kind that comes in pressurized cans, with a fine plastic canula , to loose frozen locks?

BTW, nice name...

Manuel

Thanks Manuel,

Ye ole Pirate suggests just that, sinking the whole lot into a vat of oil seems so troublesome and intensive to clean. Work slowly at it and I think it is most likely stuck down near the drag. The product you note is fine in my eyes.
I have found the best place to grip when removing a stuck sword is one hand near the base, say just past the percussion point and the other on the hilt and give it all you got.

Gav

[celtan]

Hi Gav,

Used the mineral oil through breaks in the scabbard, let it soak for a couple hours, applied some judicious tapping to the crossguard, and voila!

Now, the condition of the blade as it is is troubling. The rust has grown to a concrescence in certain areas, as you can see. I was wondering how to deal with it. I have never had to work on such heavy rust. Naval Jelly? A Dremel Drill? Seems like an obscene fungus growth.

Any suggestions?

Best

Manuel