Kachin/Naga Dao

scratch · 20th September 2008, 10:55 PM

G'day
I think these are Very

kahnjar1 · 21st September 2008, 12:06 AM

Yes VERY cool indeed. I have been trying to get hold of one of these for quite some time. Any ideas?
Regards Stu

Gavin Nugent · 21st September 2008, 04:02 AM

Very cool Scratch, and a pair to boot!! You collection is growing with more quality items AAA+.
I look forward to viewing further images.

Gav

scratch · 21st September 2008, 11:38 AM

G'day

Hello Khanjar and Freebooter, both pieces show obvious signs of hairpin lamination. Without cleaning it is not obvious in photos. I was quite stunned to get these with fitting scabbards, I love the shape and texture of these.Down the track I think they will display well and tell their own story.
Thank you both for your interest, I wil add some photos.

Cheers,

Dan

scratch · 21st September 2008, 12:20 PM

With flash.

Bill M · 21st September 2008, 02:44 PM

Neat! I also have always liked these! Have pictures of a pair of mine, somewhere.....

Bill M · 23rd September 2008, 05:34 PM

Mark, Here is a closeup of my jawbone. Could be a tiger or some other big cat. The teeth on mine look similar to yours.

I am also curious about the symbol on the end of my hilt. Any ideas? Anybody else have a symbol like this?

Tim Simmons · 23rd September 2008, 07:54 PM

I also have one with part of a small cats jaw. Grrrrrrrr meiow

Left side of lower mandible to be precise. Correction upper right.

scratch · 25th September 2008, 05:54 AM

G'day

Flavio,Mark,Paolo,Bill and Tim,
Thank you for your Info, thoughts and sharing such wonderful examples!!!

Bill, is the symbol outlined in silver? does this motif appear in any of the textiles,crafts of region?
Were the smiths also shamens?
I am ignorant of Kachin culture, any good links please?
Cheers

Daniel

Mark · 25th September 2008, 07:37 PM

As far as I know, there were no shamanistic aspects to bladesmithing among the Kachin. It is not considerred to be a prestigeous occupation, except among the Duleng, who were (and I suppose may still be) famous for the quality of their blades. See, Leach, "Political Systems of Highland Burma," (1954), pp. 57 & 251. This seems to correlate with the social/political structure of the communities - in so-called gumsa societies, which emphasize heritary rule, blacksmiths are accorded little status, while in the more egalitarian or merit-based gumlao societies, like the Duleng Kachin, it is seen as a high-status profession. Shan society is predominantly gumsa, and also views blacksmithing as a low-class occupation (in Leach's words, "iron-working is a task for slaves"). p. 251. Perhaps the distinction comes from viewing a blacksmith as a provider of material to the ruling class, a "tool" as it were, as opposed to someone who provides a valuable service for the community. Artisans of all kinds were considered very valuable stategic assets throughout the history of the region, and after a war were regularly uprooted and deported to the victor's territory. Perhaps another reason an autocratic/heirarchical society might view them more as chattels than as valued members of the community.

20th September 2008, 10:55 PM	#1
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	Kachin/Naga Dao G'day I think these are Very Attached Images Last edited by scratch; 20th September 2008 at 11:15 PM. Reason: Incomplete wording

21st September 2008, 12:06 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	I AGREE!! Yes VERY cool indeed. I have been trying to get hold of one of these for quite some time. Any ideas? Regards Stu

21st September 2008, 04:02 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Very cool Very cool Scratch, and a pair to boot!! You collection is growing with more quality items AAA+. I look forward to viewing further images. Gav

21st September 2008, 11:38 AM	#4
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	G'day Hello Khanjar and Freebooter, both pieces show obvious signs of hairpin lamination. Without cleaning it is not obvious in photos. I was quite stunned to get these with fitting scabbards, I love the shape and texture of these.Down the track I think they will display well and tell their own story. Thank you both for your interest, I wil add some photos. Cheers, Dan Attached Images

21st September 2008, 12:20 PM	#5
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	With flash. Attached Images

21st September 2008, 02:44 PM	#6
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Neat! I also have always liked these! Have pictures of a pair of mine, somewhere.....

23rd September 2008, 05:34 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Mark, Here is a closeup of my jawbone. Could be a tiger or some other big cat. The teeth on mine look similar to yours. I am also curious about the symbol on the end of my hilt. Any ideas? Anybody else have a symbol like this? Attached Images

23rd September 2008, 07:54 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Pussycat dolls I also have one with part of a small cats jaw. Grrrrrrrr meiow Left side of lower mandible to be precise. Correction upper right. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 23rd September 2008 at 09:12 PM. Reason: spelling + correction

25th September 2008, 05:54 AM	#9
scratch Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 96	G'day Flavio,Mark,Paolo,Bill and Tim, Thank you for your Info, thoughts and sharing such wonderful examples!!! Bill, is the symbol outlined in silver? does this motif appear in any of the textiles,crafts of region? Were the smiths also shamens? I am ignorant of Kachin culture, any good links please? Cheers Daniel

25th September 2008, 07:37 PM	#10
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	As far as I know, there were no shamanistic aspects to bladesmithing among the Kachin. It is not considerred to be a prestigeous occupation, except among the Duleng, who were (and I suppose may still be) famous for the quality of their blades. See, Leach, "Political Systems of Highland Burma," (1954), pp. 57 & 251. This seems to correlate with the social/political structure of the communities - in so-called gumsa societies, which emphasize heritary rule, blacksmiths are accorded little status, while in the more egalitarian or merit-based gumlao societies, like the Duleng Kachin, it is seen as a high-status profession. Shan society is predominantly gumsa, and also views blacksmithing as a low-class occupation (in Leach's words, "iron-working is a task for slaves"). p. 251. Perhaps the distinction comes from viewing a blacksmith as a provider of material to the ruling class, a "tool" as it were, as opposed to someone who provides a valuable service for the community. Artisans of all kinds were considered very valuable stategic assets throughout the history of the region, and after a war were regularly uprooted and deported to the victor's territory. Perhaps another reason an autocratic/heirarchical society might view them more as chattels than as valued members of the community.