Some replies to my questions to the 2nd GR historian

sirupate · 1st November 2016, 06:38 PM

Dear Colonel D. Wood (2nd GR Historian and serving Officer in WW2),

1. Regarding WW2
A. Was the Regiment responsible for the supply of Kukri to the men?
Answer; “No, not the regiment, the kukris were provided by army contract, indented for by the battalion QM, and supplied by him to the soldiers as required. We held a condemnation parade every month at which the soldiers could show their badly worn clothing and damaged personal equipment (of which the *kukri was part), and have them exchanged for new ones.”
*The Gurkhas were only issued one kukri
B. If the Regiment did get the kukri, did they use the Lohar in Dehra Dun area?
Answer; “No; I don’t believe so.”
C. Do you remember the style of kukri that was issued?
Answer; “As far as I recollect, plain steel, fairly slim blade with plain wooden handle, which had a retaining plate at the top. One skinning knife and one sharpening steel, both with wood handles. Sometimes (the scabbard) worn under a khaki-drill cloth cover, or in the case of Burma olive-green-drill cloth.”
D. Was the Regiment responsible ensuring re-supply of kukri, for when rifleman needed a new one?
Answer; Ref; 1A
E. Were the kukri issued during WW2 always of the same type, or due to re-supply problems were different types issued at different times?
Answer; “Of similar design and size for everyone, I think. But the kukris would have been more or less hand-made by the Lohars working for the contractors supplying the Army and so they probably all varied slightly. I have *two, both similar to the one you show.”
*Like Major General Mike Callan, Colonel Wood used his kukri for gardening.

2. Regarding WW2
A. Did the Officers in your Battalion use issued kukri, like Major General Mike Callan?
Answer; “Yes”
B. Did you use an issued kukri?
Answer; “Yes”
C. Or like Captain McCalla in 1 GR did you have one made for you by the armourer?
Answer; “No”
D. Or like JPX did you not carry one?
Answer; “I usually carried one on operations in India, Malaya and Borneo.”

3. Regarding WW2; according to the British Gurkha Officers and the Gurkhas I have spoken to that served in WW2, they say no private kukri were carried by the riflemen
Reply to the above; I agree. I don’t think soldiers in 1/2 GR would have been allowed to carry private kukris even if they had wanted to (which I doubt).
A. Did all your Riflemen carry issue kukri, like Lal Bahadur Thapa V.C.?
Answer; “Yes”
B. But could Havildars and Jemadars etc. be granted permission to carry their own?
Answer; “No, I never heard of that.”

4. Article on Gurkhas in WW2;
‘Out at the defensive perimeter, the Gurkhas (4th GR) were stationed, 2 men to a trench. It was standard practice never to put 3 Gurkhas in a trench, as with 2, one will guard, 1 will sleep. With 3, 1 will watch, 1 will sleep, and 1 will strip off, grease his body, and draw his Ancestral Kukri to go looking for Japanese souvenirs. Only this blade requires to taste blood before returning to its sheath, not the Sheffield steel one that the army issued, that was used for splitting sticks and opening tins, and could be obtained simply for the asking, as it had no honour. If a Gurkha fell in combat, his comrades would retrieve his Ancestral Kukri, for return home, and vesting with the next eldest son. Gurkhas were not normally seen carrying bayonets, preferring the Kukri.’
Question; what do you think about the article, and the claim of Ancestral kukri being carried along with their issued kukri?
Answer; “Nonsense.”

5. Do you know if the Fisher Kukri in the GM was actually used in the Indian Mutiny?
Answer; “No, I don’t.”

In general chat about his post war kukri, he said; “the largest one given to me in 1970, is 16 inches tip to top, the plain blade, just under 2 inches wide at widest, has 69 stamped just below the handle to show year of manufacture.”
WW2 1/2nd GR

mross · 2nd November 2016, 04:24 PM

So it sounds like most if not all of the romanticized Gurkha stories are just that stories.

sirupate · 2nd November 2016, 06:00 PM

Indeed that would appear to be the case, especially as Col. Wood backs up previous correspondence with other British Gurkha Officers and Gurkhas who served in WW2

mross · 3rd November 2016, 04:20 PM

Interesting information. From what I understand, heirloom khuks where just that heirlooms passed down and probably never saw battle. The actual battle khuks were what ever the standard issue was for that time period. So where does that leave khuks such as hanshee and siruptes? Does not sound like these where battle types.

sirupate · 4th November 2016, 11:57 AM

Hi mross, their isn't a tradition of 'heirloom' (i.e. a treasured item handed down through the family) kukri as such in Nepal, it is more like, this is the kukri my dad had and its still usable, so we will keep it.
The 43rd in 1907 became the 2/8th GR. and in this picture they have issued 'Eastern/Sirupate' kukri. The picture is not only the first recorded picture of Eastern style kukri (as far as I know), but the only known one (again as far as I know) of Gurkhas with issued Eastern style kukri, which is ironic in a way, as they were mainly a Magar and Gurung manned regiment.
And the Hanshee/Goorkhali fighting kukri were undoubtedly used in battle, an example is Jung Bahadur Rana's kukri

1st November 2016, 06:38 PM	#1
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Some replies to my questions to the 2nd GR historian Dear Colonel D. Wood (2nd GR Historian and serving Officer in WW2), 1. Regarding WW2 A. Was the Regiment responsible for the supply of Kukri to the men? Answer; “No, not the regiment, the kukris were provided by army contract, indented for by the battalion QM, and supplied by him to the soldiers as required. We held a condemnation parade every month at which the soldiers could show their badly worn clothing and damaged personal equipment (of which the kukri was part), and have them exchanged for new ones.” The Gurkhas were only issued one kukri B. If the Regiment did get the kukri, did they use the Lohar in Dehra Dun area? Answer; “No; I don’t believe so.” C. Do you remember the style of kukri that was issued? Answer; “As far as I recollect, plain steel, fairly slim blade with plain wooden handle, which had a retaining plate at the top. One skinning knife and one sharpening steel, both with wood handles. Sometimes (the scabbard) worn under a khaki-drill cloth cover, or in the case of Burma olive-green-drill cloth.” D. Was the Regiment responsible ensuring re-supply of kukri, for when rifleman needed a new one? Answer; Ref; 1A E. Were the kukri issued during WW2 always of the same type, or due to re-supply problems were different types issued at different times? Answer; “Of similar design and size for everyone, I think. But the kukris would have been more or less hand-made by the Lohars working for the contractors supplying the Army and so they probably all varied slightly. I have two, both similar to the one you show.” Like Major General Mike Callan, Colonel Wood used his kukri for gardening. 2. Regarding WW2 A. Did the Officers in your Battalion use issued kukri, like Major General Mike Callan? Answer; “Yes” B. Did you use an issued kukri? Answer; “Yes” C. Or like Captain McCalla in 1 GR did you have one made for you by the armourer? Answer; “No” D. Or like JPX did you not carry one? Answer; “I usually carried one on operations in India, Malaya and Borneo.” 3. Regarding WW2; according to the British Gurkha Officers and the Gurkhas I have spoken to that served in WW2, they say no private kukri were carried by the riflemen Reply to the above; I agree. I don’t think soldiers in 1/2 GR would have been allowed to carry private kukris even if they had wanted to (which I doubt). A. Did all your Riflemen carry issue kukri, like Lal Bahadur Thapa V.C.? Answer; “Yes” B. But could Havildars and Jemadars etc. be granted permission to carry their own? Answer; “No, I never heard of that.” 4. Article on Gurkhas in WW2; ‘Out at the defensive perimeter, the Gurkhas (4th GR) were stationed, 2 men to a trench. It was standard practice never to put 3 Gurkhas in a trench, as with 2, one will guard, 1 will sleep. With 3, 1 will watch, 1 will sleep, and 1 will strip off, grease his body, and draw his Ancestral Kukri to go looking for Japanese souvenirs. Only this blade requires to taste blood before returning to its sheath, not the Sheffield steel one that the army issued, that was used for splitting sticks and opening tins, and could be obtained simply for the asking, as it had no honour. If a Gurkha fell in combat, his comrades would retrieve his Ancestral Kukri, for return home, and vesting with the next eldest son. Gurkhas were not normally seen carrying bayonets, preferring the Kukri.’ Question; what do you think about the article, and the claim of Ancestral kukri being carried along with their issued kukri? Answer; “Nonsense.” 5. Do you know if the Fisher Kukri in the GM was actually used in the Indian Mutiny? Answer; “No, I don’t.” In general chat about his post war kukri, he said; “the largest one given to me in 1970, is 16 inches tip to top, the plain blade, just under 2 inches wide at widest, has 69 stamped just below the handle to show year of manufacture.” WW2 1/2nd GR Attached Images Last edited by sirupate; 1st November 2016 at 07:23 PM.

4th November 2016, 11:57 AM	#5
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Hi mross, their isn't a tradition of 'heirloom' (i.e. a treasured item handed down through the family) kukri as such in Nepal, it is more like, this is the kukri my dad had and its still usable, so we will keep it. The 43rd in 1907 became the 2/8th GR. and in this picture they have issued 'Eastern/Sirupate' kukri. The picture is not only the first recorded picture of Eastern style kukri (as far as I know), but the only known one (again as far as I know) of Gurkhas with issued Eastern style kukri, which is ironic in a way, as they were mainly a Magar and Gurung manned regiment. And the Hanshee/Goorkhali fighting kukri were undoubtedly used in battle, an example is Jung Bahadur Rana's kukri Attached Images

2nd November 2016, 04:24 PM	#2
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	So it sounds like most if not all of the romanticized Gurkha stories are just that stories.

2nd November 2016, 06:00 PM	#3
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Indeed that would appear to be the case, especially as Col. Wood backs up previous correspondence with other British Gurkha Officers and Gurkhas who served in WW2

3rd November 2016, 04:20 PM	#4
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Interesting information. From what I understand, heirloom khuks where just that heirlooms passed down and probably never saw battle. The actual battle khuks were what ever the standard issue was for that time period. So where does that leave khuks such as hanshee and siruptes? Does not sound like these where battle types.