Strange engraved Keris blade.

Athanase · 10th March 2016, 09:30 PM

Hello everybody, I'm just joined the forum.

(Sorry for my english, I'm French).
I'm thirty years old and I collect keris and other Indonesian weapons.

I read this forum for a long time but I decided to join you because I recently bought a very original (antique?) keris.

The warangka is made of a single piece of wood with a pendok in copper alloys.
The mendak seems to be as old as the scabbard and handle.

It's difficult to see the pamor. the pamor draws parallel lines over the entire length of the blade.
The blade is engraved with an elephant ridden by a mahout, a little house and other characters. Both sides of the blade have the same engravings, but the other side is less clear and too complicated to make a picture.

I searched a bit on the internet and I've never seen a similar keris.
I would like to know the name and symbol of this type of blade.

What is the age of the engravings on the blade?

Thank you very much.

David · 11th March 2016, 03:28 PM

Well that sure is an interesting keris you have there. It is not unheard of to decorate a talismanic keris in this manner, often with figures from the wayang. If you can get a hold of the book Iron Ancestors by Alkema, Grishaaver & Sirag you will find a short chapter on similar blades, though there is very little depth to the information on them there. I have seen more recent attempts of taking old, uninteresting blades and adding new reliefs to them to make them look more interesting, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. Likewise i have seen completely new pieces with such markings that have been artificially aged, but again that doesn't appear to be the case as far as i can tell from your photos. This looks, to my eye at least, to be a legitimately old blade with original markings on it, though i have been fooled before.
I don't think what you are seeing is pamor, but rather the structure of the iron itself. There my be some residual pamor on this blade if it ever had any, but i don't see much sense in an acid wash and warangan treatment.
Can you give us a little more info about it. How long is just the blade itself? Have you removed the hilt yet (it is facing in the wrong direction)? It might be helpful to get a look at the pesi (tang). I also wouldn't mind seeing the front side of the sheath as well as a photo from the top of the blade looking down on the gonjo, perhaps when the hilt is removed. Thanks for showing this.

Athanase · 11th March 2016, 07:05 PM

The last picture of first message is the picture of auction house.
I oriented the handle in the good direction when I received the keris.
Length of the blade : 35 cm
My camera is in the house of my parents, so I made the following pictures with a phone. There is a lot rust on the pesi.

Gustav · 11th March 2016, 08:21 PM

It could be an original old one indeed. A very similar one, actually almost identical within smallest details (which could be also suspicious), with the same thick Gonjo, is depicted in van der Hoop, Indonesische Siermotiven, 1949, on pages 119 and 139.

I see a Surya of Majapahit between other symbols. If it isn't a copy, it could be a very old Keris. Thank you for sharing!

A. G. Maisey · 12th March 2016, 04:11 AM

This type of blade is very infrequently seen these days, but in the 1970's they were not particularly uncommon in markets in Jakarta and Central and East Jawa. During the 1970's I bought a few myself, and I still have a tombak blade with this type of surface ornamentation, that was given to me.

Frequently the relief design is produced by deep acid etching, sometimes -- in the better examples -- the design is carved into the surface. I remember seeing a keris like this in a showcase in the lobby of a hotel in Surabaya in 1974 that had a label advising viewers that it was Erlangga's keris. Erlangga ruled East Jawa from about 1030 to 1050. Decide for yourself if it really was Erlangga's keris.

In respect of the keris under discussion, in form it bears a number of indicators that permit it to be classified as Tuban, the one indicator that is simply not open to debate is the form of the top of the gonjo, which is neither sebit ron nor uceng mati, the buntut urang is cut off square and abruptly. There is no gonjo other than Tuban of this form.

However, if we look at the base of the very substantial pesi and most particularly what we see where that pesi enters the gonjo, we do not see any indication that we are looking at a keris that could have the age of a true Tuban keris, in this case, Tuban of the sub-division Pajajaran.

Similarly, the kembang kacang that in this keris becomes the elephants trunk still shows the square cut at its tip where it folds into proximity with the gandhik, and the ron dha carvings are exceptionally well preserved. Not what we expect in a keris that is +300 years old.

I cannot see if this keris has a slorok (steel core), but even if it does, I think it is almost certain that the outer skin of the blade is good quality wrought iron, not really pamor.

Based upon what I believe I can see in these photographs it is my opinion that this keris was made between 1850 and 1940, and specifically as a base for the carving.

It is not a recent keris, and it is a very well made keris, the surface ornamentation appears to be carved, not etched, but it is not nearly as old as the form would suggest.

Gustav · 12th March 2016, 07:39 AM

Alan, regarding the base of Pesi where it enters Gonjo -

there is a significant step and the Pesi inside Gonjo is a lot thicker. If the surface at this place wouldn't be so fresh - would this actually be a sign for an old Keris?

Athanase · 12th March 2016, 09:31 AM

Thank you for the very rich comments.
About pesi, when I removed hilt and mendak I saw that the base of pesi is not rust like the length of pesi or the top of gonjo. (I removed lot of rust before taking picture).
I feel that the basis of pesi was filed to place the mendak.
As Gustav say, I see that the pesi is slightly larger inside the Gonjo.

The clothes of this keris seem old, it is possible to give approximate age depending on the details of mendak, pendok, handle etc.. or the materials used?

Jean · 12th March 2016, 12:05 PM

Hello Athanase,
Welcome to the forum!
I have no doubt that this blade is old but because of the shiny surface the carved motifs and potential pamor are not very visible. In order to improve the surface look and remove the rust spots, I would advise you to clean the blade by dipping it completely in undiluted vinegar (8°) or 10% citric acid (or a mix of the 2 products) for about 24 h with 2 intermediate brushings, which would not attack the iron/ steel itself. After treating, carefully rinse & dry the blade, and treat it immediately with WD40 for preserving it from future rusting.
Regards

10th March 2016, 09:30 PM	#1
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Strange engraved Keris blade. Hello everybody, I'm just joined the forum. (Sorry for my english, I'm French). I'm thirty years old and I collect keris and other Indonesian weapons. I read this forum for a long time but I decided to join you because I recently bought a very original (antique?) keris. The warangka is made of a single piece of wood with a pendok in copper alloys. The mendak seems to be as old as the scabbard and handle. It's difficult to see the pamor. the pamor draws parallel lines over the entire length of the blade. The blade is engraved with an elephant ridden by a mahout, a little house and other characters. Both sides of the blade have the same engravings, but the other side is less clear and too complicated to make a picture. I searched a bit on the internet and I've never seen a similar keris. I would like to know the name and symbol of this type of blade. What is the age of the engravings on the blade? Thank you very much. Attached Images

11th March 2016, 07:05 PM	#3
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	The last picture of first message is the picture of auction house. I oriented the handle in the good direction when I received the keris. Length of the blade : 35 cm My camera is in the house of my parents, so I made the following pictures with a phone. There is a lot rust on the pesi. Attached Images

12th March 2016, 07:39 AM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,237	Alan, regarding the base of Pesi where it enters Gonjo - there is a significant step and the Pesi inside Gonjo is a lot thicker. If the surface at this place wouldn't be so fresh - would this actually be a sign for an old Keris? Last edited by Gustav; 12th March 2016 at 09:23 AM. Reason: misspelling

11th March 2016, 03:28 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,100	Well that sure is an interesting keris you have there. It is not unheard of to decorate a talismanic keris in this manner, often with figures from the wayang. If you can get a hold of the book Iron Ancestors by Alkema, Grishaaver & Sirag you will find a short chapter on similar blades, though there is very little depth to the information on them there. I have seen more recent attempts of taking old, uninteresting blades and adding new reliefs to them to make them look more interesting, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. Likewise i have seen completely new pieces with such markings that have been artificially aged, but again that doesn't appear to be the case as far as i can tell from your photos. This looks, to my eye at least, to be a legitimately old blade with original markings on it, though i have been fooled before. I don't think what you are seeing is pamor, but rather the structure of the iron itself. There my be some residual pamor on this blade if it ever had any, but i don't see much sense in an acid wash and warangan treatment. Can you give us a little more info about it. How long is just the blade itself? Have you removed the hilt yet (it is facing in the wrong direction)? It might be helpful to get a look at the pesi (tang). I also wouldn't mind seeing the front side of the sheath as well as a photo from the top of the blade looking down on the gonjo, perhaps when the hilt is removed. Thanks for showing this.

11th March 2016, 08:21 PM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,237	It could be an original old one indeed. A very similar one, actually almost identical within smallest details (which could be also suspicious), with the same thick Gonjo, is depicted in van der Hoop, Indonesische Siermotiven, 1949, on pages 119 and 139. I see a Surya of Majapahit between other symbols. If it isn't a copy, it could be a very old Keris. Thank you for sharing!

12th March 2016, 04:11 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,855	This type of blade is very infrequently seen these days, but in the 1970's they were not particularly uncommon in markets in Jakarta and Central and East Jawa. During the 1970's I bought a few myself, and I still have a tombak blade with this type of surface ornamentation, that was given to me. Frequently the relief design is produced by deep acid etching, sometimes -- in the better examples -- the design is carved into the surface. I remember seeing a keris like this in a showcase in the lobby of a hotel in Surabaya in 1974 that had a label advising viewers that it was Erlangga's keris. Erlangga ruled East Jawa from about 1030 to 1050. Decide for yourself if it really was Erlangga's keris. In respect of the keris under discussion, in form it bears a number of indicators that permit it to be classified as Tuban, the one indicator that is simply not open to debate is the form of the top of the gonjo, which is neither sebit ron nor uceng mati, the buntut urang is cut off square and abruptly. There is no gonjo other than Tuban of this form. However, if we look at the base of the very substantial pesi and most particularly what we see where that pesi enters the gonjo, we do not see any indication that we are looking at a keris that could have the age of a true Tuban keris, in this case, Tuban of the sub-division Pajajaran. Similarly, the kembang kacang that in this keris becomes the elephants trunk still shows the square cut at its tip where it folds into proximity with the gandhik, and the ron dha carvings are exceptionally well preserved. Not what we expect in a keris that is +300 years old. I cannot see if this keris has a slorok (steel core), but even if it does, I think it is almost certain that the outer skin of the blade is good quality wrought iron, not really pamor. Based upon what I believe I can see in these photographs it is my opinion that this keris was made between 1850 and 1940, and specifically as a base for the carving. It is not a recent keris, and it is a very well made keris, the surface ornamentation appears to be carved, not etched, but it is not nearly as old as the form would suggest.

12th March 2016, 09:31 AM	#7
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Thank you for the very rich comments. About pesi, when I removed hilt and mendak I saw that the base of pesi is not rust like the length of pesi or the top of gonjo. (I removed lot of rust before taking picture). I feel that the basis of pesi was filed to place the mendak. As Gustav say, I see that the pesi is slightly larger inside the Gonjo. The clothes of this keris seem old, it is possible to give approximate age depending on the details of mendak, pendok, handle etc.. or the materials used?

12th March 2016, 12:05 PM	#8
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Athanase, Welcome to the forum! I have no doubt that this blade is old but because of the shiny surface the carved motifs and potential pamor are not very visible. In order to improve the surface look and remove the rust spots, I would advise you to clean the blade by dipping it completely in undiluted vinegar (8°) or 10% citric acid (or a mix of the 2 products) for about 24 h with 2 intermediate brushings, which would not attack the iron/ steel itself. After treating, carefully rinse & dry the blade, and treat it immediately with WD40 for preserving it from future rusting. Regards