Revolutionary Fascine Knife

Billman · 25th August 2011, 07:49 PM

Hi
I regularly search the net for new images or information on billhooks, and found a Revolutionary Fascine Knife on ebay USA. I have some queries on this, and tried to contact the seller to voice them, but he/she does not accept messages or questions via eBay, and as I have no other contact details thought I would throw my concerns open for discussion...

The description reads:

A classic utility of the 18th century military engineer in his construction of breastworks and fortifications, this all original fascines (pronounced faseens) knife measuring just over 16" in total length with a heavy hand-forged iron blade and deep maker's touch mark. The leather washer grip with "rat-tail" tang remain intact and solid with period field use wear

However the images of the tool shout at me 19th century or even 20th century Italian roncola (billhook)...

The shape of the blade, the leather handle and the hand guard are all typically Italian. The blade appear to be forged from an old farrier's rasp, most pre-20th century tools are of wrought iron with a welded steel cutting edge...

Although there is mention of a touch-mark, there is no image (except the flattened teeth of the rasp) - so no comparison can be made...

Below two images of the tool on eBay, and some Italian roncole for comparison of blade shape, handle detail and hand guard - plus some typucalItalian makers' touch-marks....

Comments please???

Rick · 25th August 2011, 08:49 PM

Rules Applying to the Discussion Fora (Ethnographic Weapons, Keris Warung Kopi & European Armoury) Specifically

1. Discussion of items currently in the process of being offered for sale, especially active auctions, is strictly prohibited. This prohibition also includes posting of links or other identifying clues (such as auction numbers) and calling attention that a previously discussed item is now for sale.

Billman · 23rd September 2011, 11:08 AM

Now the auction has ended, I will post the images - but it seems to me that a lot of European imported tools are being sold in the US as having been made in the US pre 1800. Many of these are also being sold as weapons, when they are in fact agricultural tools - and some even have obvious 19th or early 20th century maker's marks.

Funny how a tool bought in a french brocante or on ebay.de for 10 to 20 euros suddenly acquires an extra 100 years in age and an increase in value of 1000% and ends up for sale at $100 to $200. I have even recently seen French vineyard coup-marcs on sale for close to $1000 - you can still pick them up in France for under $100...... Import duties into the US must be extortionate, or someone is ripping off someone else....

M ELEY · 25th September 2011, 10:31 AM

Do a search on the 'Bay for 'naval boarding axe' and 90% of what you will see are Euro camp axes, fire hatchets, etc, being sold for outragious prices. There's even one reputable antique swords site that is (unfortunately) doing the same thing...sigh.

Billman · 26th September 2011, 05:25 PM

Axes of the same pattern as Naval Boarding axes, with a spike at one end are very similar to the certain patterns of tomahawk traded to the Indian tribes of North America and Canada by English and French settlers and fur traders. I have a Quebecois friend who discoverd one in an archaelogical dig earlier this year, and is probably 17th possibly 18th century.

In doing some research for him I found an almost identical one was still being made by Leborgne of France in the 1920's.... as a fireman's axe (hache de pompier) and was also being made up to the end of the 20th century (and although not listed in their current catalogue, they would still make it upon request to a minimum order quantity....)....

See No 428

Put one of these in the ground for a few years.....

Dmitry · 26th September 2011, 08:49 PM

I'd like to see those billhook photos, or a link to the ended auction.

Who is the dealer that's selling fire axes as boarding axes?

Thanks!

25th August 2011, 07:49 PM	#1
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Revolutionary Fascine Knife Hi I regularly search the net for new images or information on billhooks, and found a Revolutionary Fascine Knife on ebay USA. I have some queries on this, and tried to contact the seller to voice them, but he/she does not accept messages or questions via eBay, and as I have no other contact details thought I would throw my concerns open for discussion... The description reads: A classic utility of the 18th century military engineer in his construction of breastworks and fortifications, this all original fascines (pronounced faseens) knife measuring just over 16" in total length with a heavy hand-forged iron blade and deep maker's touch mark. The leather washer grip with "rat-tail" tang remain intact and solid with period field use wear However the images of the tool shout at me 19th century or even 20th century Italian roncola (billhook)... The shape of the blade, the leather handle and the hand guard are all typically Italian. The blade appear to be forged from an old farrier's rasp, most pre-20th century tools are of wrought iron with a welded steel cutting edge... Although there is mention of a touch-mark, there is no image (except the flattened teeth of the rasp) - so no comparison can be made... Below two images of the tool on eBay, and some Italian roncole for comparison of blade shape, handle detail and hand guard - plus some typucalItalian makers' touch-marks.... Comments please??? Last edited by Billman; 25th August 2011 at 08:22 PM.

25th August 2011, 08:49 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,271	Closed Rules Applying to the Discussion Fora (Ethnographic Weapons, Keris Warung Kopi & European Armoury) Specifically 1. Discussion of items currently in the process of being offered for sale, especially active auctions, is strictly prohibited. This prohibition also includes posting of links or other identifying clues (such as auction numbers) and calling attention that a previously discussed item is now for sale.

26th September 2011, 05:25 PM	#5
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Axes of the same pattern as Naval Boarding axes, with a spike at one end are very similar to the certain patterns of tomahawk traded to the Indian tribes of North America and Canada by English and French settlers and fur traders. I have a Quebecois friend who discoverd one in an archaelogical dig earlier this year, and is probably 17th possibly 18th century. In doing some research for him I found an almost identical one was still being made by Leborgne of France in the 1920's.... as a fireman's axe (hache de pompier) and was also being made up to the end of the 20th century (and although not listed in their current catalogue, they would still make it upon request to a minimum order quantity....).... See No 428 Put one of these in the ground for a few years..... Attached Images Last edited by Billman; 26th September 2011 at 05:38 PM.

23rd September 2011, 11:08 AM	#3
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Now the auction has ended, I will post the images - but it seems to me that a lot of European imported tools are being sold in the US as having been made in the US pre 1800. Many of these are also being sold as weapons, when they are in fact agricultural tools - and some even have obvious 19th or early 20th century maker's marks. Funny how a tool bought in a french brocante or on ebay.de for 10 to 20 euros suddenly acquires an extra 100 years in age and an increase in value of 1000% and ends up for sale at $100 to $200. I have even recently seen French vineyard coup-marcs on sale for close to $1000 - you can still pick them up in France for under $100...... Import duties into the US must be extortionate, or someone is ripping off someone else....

25th September 2011, 10:31 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,082	Do a search on the 'Bay for 'naval boarding axe' and 90% of what you will see are Euro camp axes, fire hatchets, etc, being sold for outragious prices. There's even one reputable antique swords site that is (unfortunately) doing the same thing...sigh.

26th September 2011, 08:49 PM	#6
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I'd like to see those billhook photos, or a link to the ended auction. Who is the dealer that's selling fire axes as boarding axes? Thanks!