2 swords for ID please.

katana · 1st August 2011, 07:47 PM

Does anyone recognise these 2 regulation (?) Sabres.

No dimensions as yet (swords not yet received) but several pictures to get the ball rolling. Condition is poor and the knucklebow from the lion headed pommel sword is missing. Not certain whether the other should have one or not.
I'm hoping that I can at least improve the condition of these 'old warriors'.

All comments, advice and information gratefully received thank you

Kind Regards David

Jim McDougall · 2nd August 2011, 03:28 AM

Hi David,
I'm about as rusty on recalling ID on regulation pattern military sabres as these swords themselves

but off the cuff and without hitting the books (too tired for another excavation in the bookmobile) I would say the top one with fluted ivory appears to be American officers. The pommel resembles earlier French officers swords also, along with the fluted langet. Looks early 19th, for U.S.......Federal period.

The second example seems Continental European officers, probably latter 18th c. into early 19th, the langet seems Prussian or Austrian. Admittedly just guesses, but think the time frames.

Best regards,
Jim

katana · 2nd August 2011, 03:28 PM

Hi Jim

,
thank you ...I had seen French swords with a very similar pommel (on the fluted handled sabre) but they were shorter ....US could be a good call. Hopefully they will arrive soon and I'll be able to improve the description ... I suppose I should be a little more patient

...a few pictures isn't really much to go on

All the best

Kind Regards David

Jim McDougall · 3rd August 2011, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Jim

,
thank you ...I had seen French swords with a very similar pommel (on the fluted handled sabre) but they were shorter ....US could be a good call. Hopefully they will arrive soon and I'll be able to improve the description ... I suppose I should be a little more patient

...a few pictures isn't really much to go on

All the best

Kind Regards David

You bet David! I'm glad you posted these and we'll surely get closer in on the ID soon. I need to locate my copy of "The American Sword" (Peterson) on the fluted ivory one, and the other I'm pretty sure will turn up in Wagner ("Cut and Thrust Weapons"). Both are pretty well buried in here!
Thank you as always for your kind response

All the best,
Jim

katana · 4th August 2011, 05:32 PM

Hi Jim

...helpful as usual

Swords have arrived....and have just had a quick basic clean....

Lion head pommel Sabre has a broad single fuller which finishes approx 6 1/2" from the point. The blade has a sharpened false edge and the spine has distal taper and the edge is still quite sharp. Handle leather over wood...no signs of there ever being any wire wrap. The ends of the remaining guard look to be 'snapped' off ...rather than cut

Blade length 83cms/32.5 "
Blade width at forte 28mm / 1 1/8"
Spine at forte 8mm/ 5/16"

Any ideas Gentlemen ??

Kind Regards David

katana · 4th August 2011, 05:44 PM

Fluted handle sword ....broad single fuller terminating approx 5" before the point, sharpened false edge, sharp edge and spine has distal taper. Handle material is 'organic' , no 'burnt hair' smell from 'hot pin test' ...so not certain what it is ...seems quite hard though (either through age or the material itself)

Blade length following curve 81cms/ 32"
Blade width at forte 28mm / 1 1/16"
Spine max thickness 5mm / 1/5"

Kind Regards David

1st August 2011, 07:47 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	2 swords for ID please. Does anyone recognise these 2 regulation (?) Sabres. No dimensions as yet (swords not yet received) but several pictures to get the ball rolling. Condition is poor and the knucklebow from the lion headed pommel sword is missing. Not certain whether the other should have one or not. I'm hoping that I can at least improve the condition of these 'old warriors'. All comments, advice and information gratefully received thank you Kind Regards David Attached Images

4th August 2011, 05:32 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Jim ...helpful as usual Swords have arrived....and have just had a quick basic clean.... Lion head pommel Sabre has a broad single fuller which finishes approx 6 1/2" from the point. The blade has a sharpened false edge and the spine has distal taper and the edge is still quite sharp. Handle leather over wood...no signs of there ever being any wire wrap. The ends of the remaining guard look to be 'snapped' off ...rather than cut Blade length 83cms/32.5 " Blade width at forte 28mm / 1 1/8" Spine at forte 8mm/ 5/16" Any ideas Gentlemen ?? Kind Regards David Attached Images Last edited by katana; 4th August 2011 at 05:48 PM.

4th August 2011, 05:44 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Fluted handle sword ....broad single fuller terminating approx 5" before the point, sharpened false edge, sharp edge and spine has distal taper. Handle material is 'organic' , no 'burnt hair' smell from 'hot pin test' ...so not certain what it is ...seems quite hard though (either through age or the material itself) Blade length following curve 81cms/ 32" Blade width at forte 28mm / 1 1/16" Spine max thickness 5mm / 1/5" Kind Regards David Attached Images

2nd August 2011, 03:28 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,919	Hi David, I'm about as rusty on recalling ID on regulation pattern military sabres as these swords themselves but off the cuff and without hitting the books (too tired for another excavation in the bookmobile) I would say the top one with fluted ivory appears to be American officers. The pommel resembles earlier French officers swords also, along with the fluted langet. Looks early 19th, for U.S.......Federal period. The second example seems Continental European officers, probably latter 18th c. into early 19th, the langet seems Prussian or Austrian. Admittedly just guesses, but think the time frames. Best regards, Jim

2nd August 2011, 03:28 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Jim , thank you ...I had seen French swords with a very similar pommel (on the fluted handled sabre) but they were shorter ....US could be a good call. Hopefully they will arrive soon and I'll be able to improve the description ... I suppose I should be a little more patient ...a few pictures isn't really much to go on All the best Kind Regards David