Mameluke sword

Turkoman.khan · 14th November 2023, 03:48 PM

Hi guys

Please help me with the monogram on the saber blade. This is the saber of an officer of the 16th The Queen's Lancers. Above the regimental symbol I see the motto Order of the Garter with a royal crown above it. There is a monogram in the center of the divise. Perhaps someone knows its meaning?

corrado26 · 14th November 2023, 04:12 PM

I think this could be a "CC" = monogram of Charles II. 1660-1685 but am not certain if this fits the time of the sabre.

Turkoman.khan · 14th November 2023, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

I think this could be a "CC" = monogram of Charles II. 1660-1685 but am not certain if this fits the time of the sabre.

Thank you very much for the version. I was also told that this could be the double cypher of Queen Charlotte, who was the patroness of this regiment.

fernando · 14th November 2023, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkoman.khan

... I was also told that this could be the double cypher of Queen Charlotte, who was the patroness of this regiment...

Not likely

.

.

Turkoman.khan · 14th November 2023, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Not likely

.

.

Thanks fernando. But there is such information

fernando · 14th November 2023, 07:55 PM

Oops !

Jim McDougall · 14th November 2023, 08:08 PM

This is a remarkably beautiful British cavalry officers 'mameluke' saber from a very famous British cavalry unit, who were most famed for their charge at the Battle of Aliwal against Sikh forces in 1846. In this fateful charge half of the 300 men in the 16th were lost.
During action, the lance pennons were furled, but after, as men tried to unfurl these, they had become crimped with the dried blood. In a regimental tradition, in honor of the men and that charge, the 16th always crimped their pennons.

In the early days of the regiment 1760s, they were known as the 16th Light Dragoons, and with Queen Charlotte as their patron, they became 'Queen Charlotte's Own' in the British honorary convention.
The device with Latin inscription is the Order of the Garter, the British highly honored award, not in particular to the Queen.
The words 'Honi Soit qui Mai y Pense' = shame on him who thinks evil of it'. This has to the medieval beginnings of the order.

The blade, etched decoration etc. suggests this was a saber mounted in India with outfitters in the key locations of administration during the Raj.
The 'mameluke' saber became popular after the Napoleonic campaigns, as sort of an unofficial dress saber of officers in the early 19th c.
In 1822 lancer officers adopted this form.
Given the long presence of the 16th in India, in my view there is little doubt this is 'a saber of the Raj'.

The Order of the Garter is commemorative and does not signify an award to a particular officer, but in association with Queen Charlotte and the regiments tradition.

In 1831 the mameluke became regulation for British officers of high rank, but remained popularly worn by cavalry officers, especially in India.

14th November 2023, 03:48 PM	#1
Turkoman.khan Member Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 106	Mameluke sword Hi guys Please help me with the monogram on the saber blade. This is the saber of an officer of the 16th The Queen's Lancers. Above the regimental symbol I see the motto Order of the Garter with a royal crown above it. There is a monogram in the center of the divise. Perhaps someone knows its meaning? Attached Images

14th November 2023, 04:12 PM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	I think this could be a "CC" = monogram of Charles II. 1660-1685 but am not certain if this fits the time of the sabre.

14th November 2023, 07:55 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Oops !

14th November 2023, 08:08 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,937	This is a remarkably beautiful British cavalry officers 'mameluke' saber from a very famous British cavalry unit, who were most famed for their charge at the Battle of Aliwal against Sikh forces in 1846. In this fateful charge half of the 300 men in the 16th were lost. During action, the lance pennons were furled, but after, as men tried to unfurl these, they had become crimped with the dried blood. In a regimental tradition, in honor of the men and that charge, the 16th always crimped their pennons. In the early days of the regiment 1760s, they were known as the 16th Light Dragoons, and with Queen Charlotte as their patron, they became 'Queen Charlotte's Own' in the British honorary convention. The device with Latin inscription is the Order of the Garter, the British highly honored award, not in particular to the Queen. The words 'Honi Soit qui Mai y Pense' = shame on him who thinks evil of it'. This has to the medieval beginnings of the order. The blade, etched decoration etc. suggests this was a saber mounted in India with outfitters in the key locations of administration during the Raj. The 'mameluke' saber became popular after the Napoleonic campaigns, as sort of an unofficial dress saber of officers in the early 19th c. In 1822 lancer officers adopted this form. Given the long presence of the 16th in India, in my view there is little doubt this is 'a saber of the Raj'. The Order of the Garter is commemorative and does not signify an award to a particular officer, but in association with Queen Charlotte and the regiments tradition. In 1831 the mameluke became regulation for British officers of high rank, but remained popularly worn by cavalry officers, especially in India.