Closed Threads

Conogre · 8th May 2005, 07:57 AM

If I'm out of line here, I'll willingly take my licks, "stripes" or whatever, but of late I've noticed what appears to be a disturbing trend to close threads simply because of heated discussions as opposed to those that became personal arguments involving name calling, derogatory personal comments or rampant political points of view.
In my opinion, a heated discussion can and often does often provide some very valid points that might not have otherwise arisen, as opposed to juvenile temper tantrums and offended reputations.
The thread I'm specifically referring to is the one involving hunting and kaskaras and I'm hoping that this thread may be re-thought and re-opened, as it looks too similar to plain censorship to my eyes based upon a personal point of view.
I have a hand crafted spear made for me by Tom Hyle that I intend to use hunting wild boar here in Florida, officially designated as "feral hogs" while, at the same time, you'll likely not find a person more opposed to hunting and more supportive of conservation than myself.
In my humble estimation, a cripple taking on a potentially lethal animal such as a hog, on foot, is entirely different than someone wasting Bambi with a 30.06 and a scope.
If I do it right, I get a trophy, several meals and have done a service to the State of Florida by eliminating an introduced species that is rampantly destructive of native flora and fuana, just as they are in Hawaii and many other ecologically sensitive areas.
If I do it wrong, I'll be making many less posts **grin** and there's be a fair number of collectibles available to fellow members.
Mike

Radu Transylvanicus · 8th May 2005, 11:16 AM

Picking up where we left, I have an old, old book on my library from the late 1800`s, a 100% classic safari literature, its full title might sound ackward nowadays so I wont lay it all out risking more trouble, it is about H. Morton Stanley's adventures in Africa with plenty of refferences to other explorers and in the chapter : "Sir Samuel W. Baker and his heroic Lady" one account of hunting an elephant bull with the sword by two Arabian brothers, Taher Sherif and Ibrahim, claimed by cutting his tendons and waiting until bleeding to its end, entirelly by the deeds of sword and no firearms involved.
However today it does seem close to unacceptable one would go hunting the largest and most dangerous of the game armed with a sword.
On the other hands word is some Massai or Turkana in Kenya, Tanzania use their long knifes (I forgot their proper nomenclature for the moment...) not only spears to bring down lions.
If it really matters to anyone I can take the long time to copy here the actual passage from the book (quite long though!!!)...

P.S. The Massai long knife name is "simi" also spelled "seme" !

Jens Nordlunde · 8th May 2005, 01:48 PM

Whoever locked the thread ‘Killing elephants with swords’ did a good think. It has been mentioned, this is not a hunting forum, and this is very true. We are collectors of swords and daggers, but I have so far not seen any detailed description of someone being beheaded, although it happened often enough – so why this? I feel sure, that should someone bring a detailed description of someone being beheaded, it would be locked as well.

If the starter of the thread liked the book, he could have given the title, ISBN number and recommended the book, telling it was on hunting elephants with swords, and stopped at that. Quoting long passages from the book is, to the best of my opinion, not within the frames of this forum, and probably against copyright rules as well.

If Conogre wants to hunt wild boars with a spear it is up to him, and does not have anything to do with this forum, although I hope it will not be fatal for him.

nechesh · 8th May 2005, 04:14 PM

I don't see that discussions of how the swords we collect were used to be at all out of line with the purpose of this forum. This is, after all, ETHNOGRAPHIC Arms & Armour Forum. My dictionary describes that as "the scientific desciption of races and cultures of mankind". If we are not willing to discuss HOW these weapons have been used then we are taking them completely out of context of their culture and will never fully understand them. The closing of the "Elephant" thread came as a surprise to me based on the posts that appear there and i must agree with Mike that it does have the appearence of censorship.

Oh and Mike, be careful out there, eh?

tom hyle · 8th May 2005, 04:20 PM

Beheading is not a routine, or for the most part even realistic, combat move, because the human guards its head and neck more naturally, automaically, and instinctively than any other region (it will often expose its vulnerable legs, abdomen, and even armpits, to do so, and must be trained if it is to learn to avoid this. The elephant guards its trunk, and ruses and tricks are described to get it to expose same.). It's relevant mainly to judicial/official/ceremonial killing, which I for one find much more boring and less interesting (and perhaps more unfair, for whatever that means, and horrific) than combat, be it among humans or otherwise. I, and some others, discuss combat and cutting mechanics openly and commonly on this forum. I for one, tend to attempt to restrain the language used in such discussions so as to not offend the various humans with their various beliefs and desires, but have sometimes failed in this. I generally think(?) that moderator actions on this forum are in response to member complaints, either current, past, or fore-see-able (I can't remeber how people like that spelt.); I certainly don't always agree with such actions, but I think this is the motivation for them. The rules ask us not to discuss the rules, which seems bizarre and uninterprettable to me; not sure if we're suposed to have this conversation in public or not.......sure curious about Radu's awful link(s) that seem to be gone (Radu, please feel free to PM me about this; I'm not a gore lover, but I am usually curious....). The exact detailed use of edged weapons in attacking large animals seems central to the nature of this 'site IMHO. Historical/social/anthropological/linguistic discussion also gets objected to, perhaps more understandably, but also seems neccessary and relevant to me..............
The quoted passage was both short enough and tightly focused enough to our legitimate scholarly discussions to obviate copyright concerns, BTW; I wouldn't worry about that; publisher or author would likely see it as a free advert. more than anything else, anyway.

Andrew · 8th May 2005, 05:00 PM

Threads can be closed for a number of reasons, including moderators taking time out to discuss things.

If anyone has a question about forum policy or moderator actions, feel free to PM one of the staff. As Tom notes, the rules prohibit discussion of this type of thing on the open forum.

Mark · 8th May 2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Threads can be closed for a number of reasons, including moderators taking time out to discuss things.

If anyone has a question about forum policy or moderator actions, feel free to PM one of the staff. As Tom notes, the rules prohibit discussion of this type of thing on the open forum.

Incidently, a PM is not a means of sweeping an issue under the carpet, but rather gives us a chance to discuss it among all the staff to see what must be done. It avoids endless discussions on the open forum, basically.

Ian · 8th May 2005, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Threads can be closed for a number of reasons, including moderators taking time out to discuss things.

If anyone has a question about forum policy or moderator actions, feel free to PM one of the staff. As Tom notes, the rules prohibit discussion of this type of thing on the open forum.

I just want to add a few words also, and assure all forumites that, while we have had a few instances lately of threads being closed and postings beng edited, this involves a very small fraction of the posts here. From time to time there are issues that need to be "moderated" -- that is, issues that are disruptive or objectionable, or interfere with the orderly functioning of the Forum. More often than not, these are dealt with by sending a PM to the respective party or parties.

Closing a thread is not done lightly or by a single Moderator acting out of pique. This is generally a decision reached by at least two of us, and most times it is a consensus decision of all four. If it appears that we sometimes act precipitously that may be because events have been happening behind the scenes of which other forumites are unaware.

As Moderators, we are not Forum cops. We "moderate" the content and tone of discussions when problems arise, and we have some authority to make changes if folks get stubborn. Basically, you will never hear from us if your posts follow the rules at the top of the contents page, if you are respectful of others who post here, and if you don't try to be outrageous, provocative, or shocking.

That does not seem a lot to ask. Your cooperation, as always, is greatly appreciated.

Ian.

8th May 2005, 07:57 AM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Closed Threads If I'm out of line here, I'll willingly take my licks, "stripes" or whatever, but of late I've noticed what appears to be a disturbing trend to close threads simply because of heated discussions as opposed to those that became personal arguments involving name calling, derogatory personal comments or rampant political points of view. In my opinion, a heated discussion can and often does often provide some very valid points that might not have otherwise arisen, as opposed to juvenile temper tantrums and offended reputations. The thread I'm specifically referring to is the one involving hunting and kaskaras and I'm hoping that this thread may be re-thought and re-opened, as it looks too similar to plain censorship to my eyes based upon a personal point of view. I have a hand crafted spear made for me by Tom Hyle that I intend to use hunting wild boar here in Florida, officially designated as "feral hogs" while, at the same time, you'll likely not find a person more opposed to hunting and more supportive of conservation than myself. In my humble estimation, a cripple taking on a potentially lethal animal such as a hog, on foot, is entirely different than someone wasting Bambi with a 30.06 and a scope. If I do it right, I get a trophy, several meals and have done a service to the State of Florida by eliminating an introduced species that is rampantly destructive of native flora and fuana, just as they are in Hawaii and many other ecologically sensitive areas. If I do it wrong, I'll be making many less posts grin and there's be a fair number of collectibles available to fellow members. Mike

8th May 2005, 11:16 AM	#2
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Picking up where we left, I have an old, old book on my library from the late 1800`s, a 100% classic safari literature, its full title might sound ackward nowadays so I wont lay it all out risking more trouble, it is about H. Morton Stanley's adventures in Africa with plenty of refferences to other explorers and in the chapter : "Sir Samuel W. Baker and his heroic Lady" one account of hunting an elephant bull with the sword by two Arabian brothers, Taher Sherif and Ibrahim, claimed by cutting his tendons and waiting until bleeding to its end, entirelly by the deeds of sword and no firearms involved. However today it does seem close to unacceptable one would go hunting the largest and most dangerous of the game armed with a sword. On the other hands word is some Massai or Turkana in Kenya, Tanzania use their long knifes (I forgot their proper nomenclature for the moment...) not only spears to bring down lions. If it really matters to anyone I can take the long time to copy here the actual passage from the book (quite long though!!!)... P.S. The Massai long knife name is "simi" also spelled "seme" ! Last edited by Radu Transylvanicus; 8th May 2005 at 11:39 AM.

8th May 2005, 04:14 PM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I don't see that discussions of how the swords we collect were used to be at all out of line with the purpose of this forum. This is, after all, ETHNOGRAPHIC Arms & Armour Forum. My dictionary describes that as "the scientific desciption of races and cultures of mankind". If we are not willing to discuss HOW these weapons have been used then we are taking them completely out of context of their culture and will never fully understand them. The closing of the "Elephant" thread came as a surprise to me based on the posts that appear there and i must agree with Mike that it does have the appearence of censorship. Oh and Mike, be careful out there, eh? Last edited by nechesh; 8th May 2005 at 04:41 PM.

8th May 2005, 01:48 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Whoever locked the thread ‘Killing elephants with swords’ did a good think. It has been mentioned, this is not a hunting forum, and this is very true. We are collectors of swords and daggers, but I have so far not seen any detailed description of someone being beheaded, although it happened often enough – so why this? I feel sure, that should someone bring a detailed description of someone being beheaded, it would be locked as well. If the starter of the thread liked the book, he could have given the title, ISBN number and recommended the book, telling it was on hunting elephants with swords, and stopped at that. Quoting long passages from the book is, to the best of my opinion, not within the frames of this forum, and probably against copyright rules as well. If Conogre wants to hunt wild boars with a spear it is up to him, and does not have anything to do with this forum, although I hope it will not be fatal for him.

8th May 2005, 04:20 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Beheading is not a routine, or for the most part even realistic, combat move, because the human guards its head and neck more naturally, automaically, and instinctively than any other region (it will often expose its vulnerable legs, abdomen, and even armpits, to do so, and must be trained if it is to learn to avoid this. The elephant guards its trunk, and ruses and tricks are described to get it to expose same.). It's relevant mainly to judicial/official/ceremonial killing, which I for one find much more boring and less interesting (and perhaps more unfair, for whatever that means, and horrific) than combat, be it among humans or otherwise. I, and some others, discuss combat and cutting mechanics openly and commonly on this forum. I for one, tend to attempt to restrain the language used in such discussions so as to not offend the various humans with their various beliefs and desires, but have sometimes failed in this. I generally think(?) that moderator actions on this forum are in response to member complaints, either current, past, or fore-see-able (I can't remeber how people like that spelt.); I certainly don't always agree with such actions, but I think this is the motivation for them. The rules ask us not to discuss the rules, which seems bizarre and uninterprettable to me; not sure if we're suposed to have this conversation in public or not.......sure curious about Radu's awful link(s) that seem to be gone (Radu, please feel free to PM me about this; I'm not a gore lover, but I am usually curious....). The exact detailed use of edged weapons in attacking large animals seems central to the nature of this 'site IMHO. Historical/social/anthropological/linguistic discussion also gets objected to, perhaps more understandably, but also seems neccessary and relevant to me.............. The quoted passage was both short enough and tightly focused enough to our legitimate scholarly discussions to obviate copyright concerns, BTW; I wouldn't worry about that; publisher or author would likely see it as a free advert. more than anything else, anyway.

8th May 2005, 05:00 PM	#6
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Threads can be closed for a number of reasons, including moderators taking time out to discuss things. If anyone has a question about forum policy or moderator actions, feel free to PM one of the staff. As Tom notes, the rules prohibit discussion of this type of thing on the open forum.