Shamshir information needed

[VANDERNOTTE]

Hello,


Who can help me to find the dates in this Shamshir? And other insciptions if somebody knows. I´m a collector from Lima, Perú. I´ve been collecting for over fourty years and it is not usual no find oriental blades here.

I post some pictures of the shamshir. I have many more if needed.

thanks,

Jacques Vandernotte

[ALEX]

Jacques, welcome to the Forum,
This is an outstanding blade, forged of wootz (true Damascus steel) and nicely gold-inlaid. It is Indo-Persian, 18 or 19 Century, mounted with European (ivory) hilt and crossguard. There are members here who will help with translation, but I just wanted to comment on the blade - truly nice!!! It is very rare nowadays to find such a nice blade with that many gold inscriptions in such good condition. Congratulations on owning it.

[AJ1356]

This is crap, you can throw it away, or better just ship it to me All jokes aside, this is an Assadullah Isfahani sword, very beautifully made, get better pictures of the text and I'll translate the text for you. It is a Persian sword, made in the 1600's.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

It is a Persian sword, made in the 1600's.

What are the arguments this is 17th Century blade? The name AssadUllah has been used since then up until 19th Century.

[A.alnakkas]

welcome to the forum!

This is a very fine Persian shamshir blade. I find that it has a European hilt very interesting. Maybe its an early Mamluke sabre? I know that Napoleon's army found the swords of Mamlukes very desirable so it could be one.

[AJ1356]

ALEX, Assadullah was a Safavid era swordsmith, and the Safavids ruled during the 1600s. Better pictures of the text would help us clarify that.

[ALEX]

Early Mamluk??? You mean even earlier than 16th Century? Now it's getting interesting.... Seriously, based on quality of inlay, shape and curvature of the sword it points to 18-19 C. Based on the fact that it has AssadUllah name and French liked Mamluk swords - it could be 16th or 12th C respectively.

"AssadUllah" is one of most copied names, spanning 300+ years. This is certainly hight quality blade, and could be early one, but to determine if earlier than 18th Century, translation and better close-ups are needed.

[Dom]

Bonsoir Jacques, welcome on board
the handle of the sword is furiously French 1st empire
the blade is without contest an spoils of war
both are absolutely wonderful, but not from the same origin
it's a sword for an very hight ranked officer, either for a Marchall
I saw (but for time been, I'm out of my doc...) in an auction,
a sword with a very similar handle, but mounted with an European blade

for my friends Alex and Lofti, ... and the others
I may explain why the French army was completely fascinated and infatuated with these swords,
- they were very impressed by the quality of the steel,
- they was very impressed by the slashing, due to the very good balance of these edged weapons,
- and ... not the less, the beauty of these weapons richly decorated in general

as far it's Arabic language, I have a translation,
for what it's concerning to the "Farsi" our friend "AJ1356" will be in charge

you have the sign for the blacksmith
AMAL ASFA'ANI ASSAD ALLAH either MADE BY ASSAD ALLAH THE ASFA'ANI (from Ispahan - Persia)

there is a magic square with 4 letters, very difficult to know the hidden meaning

extracted from Surat "al bayina" (?), but it's certain it's from the Holy Koran
but then to find the relevant passage ...
some more pic's will be necessary, if you want to get a complete idea of the mentions engraved on your sword, that's hope to you

à +

Dom

[VANDERNOTTE]

Bonsoir a tout le monde;

Thanks everybody for the welcome. I send you the rest of the pictures of the shamshir. Imagine how I found it that it took me two weeks of work to clean it. It was found in a roof, where it sat for over 45 years. Sadly, the scabard was ruined, only the suspension rings were to clean. But all this made the blade survive.

I attach pictures of other inscription in the blade and the suspension rings. Tomorrow I'll take more pictures of the right side of the blade.


Jacques

[AJ1356]

Before reading DOMs post I was thinking the same, that the hilt would be a later addition, and with the scabard fittings it shows Earopean style. The blade is Persian no doubt, with a mix of Arabic and Persian texts, the text on the spine is Arabic, most likely from the holy Qur'an, Lutfy or DOM could help with that, There are Persian text on the blade face itself but I need pics of it. All I can see is the begining of a sentence that reads "This sword/Shamshir.....

[Dom]

Originally Posted by AJ1356

the text on the spine is Arabic, most likely from the holy Qur'an, Lutfy or DOM could help with that

yes, we are working on, it is indeed a Koranic text,
and by the way, we'll have a look about the 2 small cartouches
but short mentions, issued from a huge book as well as the Holy Quran
it's like looking for a needle in a haystack, but might be ... Inch'Allah

nevertheless, I noticed several coats of arms on scabbard fittings
it's not too much my field ... but there is something to dig ... there

à +

Dom

[VANDERNOTTE]

Hello everyone;

these are the rest of the pictures. I thank all of you for the information given and the effort to decipher the insciptions.

Following AJ1356 directions, I will give it away to the Salvation Army if the inscription can't be translated.

Jacques

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Dom

nevertheless, I noticed several coats of arms on scabbard fittings
it's not too much my field ... but there is something to dig ... there

Dom

Indeed.

For those who may not have noticed, the suspension rings appear to be a variation of the sepent swallowing their own tails;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

An awesome sabre of outstanding quality and value that would be the highlight of anyones collection, one you should be very proud to own, I know I would.

I must add, from your description, you have done a very fine job of restoring it too.

Thank you for bringing such a fine and interesting sword to the table.

Gav

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Dom

yes, we are working on, it is indeed a Koranic text,
and by the way, we'll have a look about the 2 small cartouches
but short mentions, issued from a huge book as well as the Holy Quran
it's like looking for a needle in a haystack, but might be ... Inch'Allah

Hi
as committed, we found in Holy Quran, the corresponding passages
for the sentence on spine
extracted from Holy Quran - Surat n°9 - AT-TAWBAH
part of the verse 29
FIGHT THOSE WHO BELEIVE NOT IN ALLAH NOR THE LAST DAY,
NOR FORBID THAT WHICH ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER HAVE FORBIDDEN,
AND WHO DO NOT PROFESS THE RELIGION OF TRUE


for the two (2) small "cartouches"
extracted from Holy Quran - Surat n°3 - AL-IMRAN
part of the verse 103
HE JOINED YOUR HEARTS TOGETHER, SO THAT, BY HIS GRACE, YOU BECAME BRETHREN

everything comes to he who waits

all the best

à +

Dom

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by VANDERNOTTE

Bonsoir a tout le monde;

Thanks everybody for the welcome. I send you the rest of the pictures of the shamshir. Imagine how I found it that it took me two weeks of work to clean it. It was found in a roof, where it sat for over 45 years. Sadly, the scabard was ruined, only the suspension rings were to clean. But all this made the blade survive.

I attach pictures of other inscription in the blade and the suspension rings. Tomorrow I'll take more pictures of the right side of the blade.


Jacques

Salaams all ~ Focusing on the heraldic symbols I see peacocks dominating the scabbard furniture design. The Peacock; though it is the national bird of India means "divine protection" when applied in the Persian sense in respect to their inclusion on carpet designs which I feel more obvious when applied to swords! I am trying to trace the other heraldic symbols so far with no result...Any Islamic Heraldic Symbol specialists out there though they do appear to be European designs..?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[laEspadaAncha]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams all ~ Focusing on the heraldic symbols I see peacocks dominating the scabbard furniture design. The Peacock; though it is the national bird of India means "divine protection" when applied in the Persian sense in respect to their inclusion on carpet designs which I feel more obvious when applied to swords! I am trying to trace the other heraldic symbols so far with no result...Any Islamic Heraldic Symbol specialists out there though they do appear to be European designs..?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim,

You beat me to the punch on the peacock...

I think Gav's (wonderful) observation of the Ouroboros design of the scabbard rings, the syncretic systems gaining traction in Europe at the time, and Richard's fascinating note of Burns' involvement in Freemasonry all speak to a possibility of a symbolic syncretism at work in the furniture and fittings. The talismanic Islamic inscriptions and symbolism on the blade would have been congruent and consistent in the eyes of an 'enlightened' individual of the era.

Cheers,

Chris

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by VANDERNOTTE

Hello,


Who can help me to find the dates in this Shamshir? And other insciptions if somebody knows. I´m a collector from Lima, Perú. I´ve been collecting for over fourty years and it is not usual no find oriental blades here.

I post some pictures of the shamshir. I have many more if needed.

thanks,

Jacques Vandernotte

Salaams VANDERNOTTE ~Looking at the box with a single letter in each on your blade, please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...3&page=4&pp=30 at post number 110 for a description of this style of talismanic mark. Above at #11 Dom has done some detective work on the subject also.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ahad K.]

Hello every body. you all friends comment good. Sword signed as Amal-e-Asadullah as shown in pictures of VANDERNOTTE is really an antique sword. I have some photos of another sword signed as "Amal-e-Asadullah - Asda" but not mean it as Asfa or Asfahani. What knowledge you friends have about it or an idea about its origin, time etc?
Pictures are;

[Ahad K.]

Other pictures of the sword are here,