Pedang restored + Warangan in Java

Roland_M · 20th June 2018, 08:12 PM

Some time ago i already showed this Pedang to experienced collectors in this forum with my own quite special finish, which is now a little embarrassing for me.
But now after a professional warangan treatment in Java, the blade shows its true beauty.
Just a few pictures to enjoy.

Best wishes,
Roland

Battara · 21st June 2018, 12:37 AM

GREAT WORK!

Ian · 21st June 2018, 01:01 AM

Roland,

Lovely etching in the traditional manner. It makes a huge difference.

Ian.

kai · 21st June 2018, 09:21 AM

Hello Roland,

Congrats, nice efforts!

Quote:

Some time ago i already showed this Pedang to experienced collectors in this forum with my own quite special finish, which is now a little embarrassing for me.

Nope, not at all! While warangan will most likely be the intended, traditional etch for this blade, I do like your etch, too, since it highlights additional features! For studying the material, utilizing an assortment of etchants will yield valuable complementary information!

Did anybody note that the results shown here represent kinda negatives and positives (from those ancient days of analog B&W photography

)?

Regards,
Kai

Roland_M · 27th June 2018, 11:52 AM

One member of the forum asked about the traces of active rust and that it is a good idea in his opinion, to remove all rust before warangan.

Ther rust came to the blade after warangan and during the transport back to Germany! They forgot to use oil after warangan! No respect for their own work!

I was pretty disappointed and angry, when i saw that poor mishap after many hours of restoring!

I will never ever again send one of my blades to Indonesia for warangan!

Roland

kai · 27th June 2018, 12:20 PM

Hello Roland,

IMHO it does not look too bad - will be necessary to keep this blade very well oiled and free of dust in a dry environment though. Longtime soaking in alkaline oil may help to remove most of the active rust; in the pittings there seem to be leftovers of inactive rust, too.

I do understand that it wasn't feasible to grind off all the pitted areas and agree that it was preferable to not loose too much of the material.

When going for a full blade restoration like this, I try to remove all rust (which includes tedious manual picking) before the final (or pre-final) grade of sanding; stabilizing the surface of these crevices with tannic acid and possibly hard wax will help to avoid active rust to reappear during etching and later storage. Quite difficult to achieve given the vagaries of international processing/shipping though.

Regards,
Kai

Roland_M · 27th June 2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Roland,

IMHO it does not look too bad - will be necessary to keep this blade very well oiled and free of dust in a dry environment though.

Regards,
Kai

Hi Kai,

it does not look to bad now, because i already removed 80% of the active rust. The look was horrible, when i opened the package.
It was free of any rust (deeply cleaned) before the warangan.

Now it is swimming in Ballistol as all my blades.

Roland

A. G. Maisey · 27th June 2018, 02:53 PM

Roland, I intended to reserve comment on this warangan job, but since you yourself now recognise that it is a very poor effort, I will comment.

I have been getting blades stained in Solo for more than 40 years. There are various qualities of staining that can be done, but for quite some time, the only quality that has been available to ordinary retail customers has been the the lowest quality. A good warangan job can take bulk time and cost a lot more than the ordinary job.

Once warangan has been done the blade should be taken into direct sunlight and the light played along the blade so that you can see through the black. If you can find patches of green or yellow this is an indication that the blade has not been cleaned properly prior to staining. The stainers who do work for the retail trade do not like to clean a blade perfectly before they do the stain, because if a blade is left with a little residue from a previous stain it will reactivate and the job is done much more quickly and easily. This is the reason that I prefer to clean my own blades before I put them in to be stained, additionally I refuse to permit my staining to be done by some people.

You mention that you had already cleaned the blade before you sent it to be cleaned, but a perfectly clean blade can grow rust overnight in Indonesia. Additionally, the person who did the stain probably paid less attention to the finish polish before staining, simply because it was clean. To get anything done acceptably in Solo you need to be there and monitor the work, if not you get an "asal jadi" job, ie, "as long as its done". Quality, pride of craftsmanship is very rare, and if you can find somebody who takes pride in his work, you will get on a queue and wait, and then pay, pay, pay.

Things like swords that have the blade firmly fixed into the hilt with jabung are a bit of a problem, because to do this job properly, the blade should be demounted and then remounted when the stain is complete. Your sword blade was not demounted.The reason that it was not demounted is that for a long time it has been almost impossible to find somebody in Solo who understands how to make and use jabung, and for that matter, how to demount a blade without causing damage.

Put as plainly as possible, in my opinion most of the people who service the trade in Solo are half educated , ham handed tinkerers. I do not know of one genuine m'ranggi who is still working.

I'm talking Solo all the time, because this is the pond I swim in, but I have no reason to believe things are better elsewhere.

If you want a good stain job on your blade you will need to learn the necessary skills to do it yourself.

Roland_M · 27th June 2018, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

If you want a good stain job on your blade you will need to learn the necessary skills to do it yourself.

Alan,

thanks for your words and exactly this is my plan, i will learn the necessary skills. The biggest problem ist, that arsenic is forbidden in Germany. So we have to use realgar bought as a mineral for collectors and you never know, how strong this natural material is.

Except from the rust the staining has been done quite good, with an evenly deep black over the whole surface without strange spots of blue color or so.

The blade was completely red rusted, when i bought it. The surface was much too corroded and full of pitting for a good staining. I could not avoid a deep restoration.

Kai told me some weeks ago, that he is experienced with warangan. I hope we can work together in he future.

Roland

20th June 2018, 08:12 PM	#1
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Pedang restored + Warangan in Java Some time ago i already showed this Pedang to experienced collectors in this forum with my own quite special finish, which is now a little embarrassing for me. But now after a professional warangan treatment in Java, the blade shows its true beauty. Just a few pictures to enjoy. Best wishes, Roland Attached Images

27th June 2018, 02:53 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Roland, I intended to reserve comment on this warangan job, but since you yourself now recognise that it is a very poor effort, I will comment. I have been getting blades stained in Solo for more than 40 years. There are various qualities of staining that can be done, but for quite some time, the only quality that has been available to ordinary retail customers has been the the lowest quality. A good warangan job can take bulk time and cost a lot more than the ordinary job. Once warangan has been done the blade should be taken into direct sunlight and the light played along the blade so that you can see through the black. If you can find patches of green or yellow this is an indication that the blade has not been cleaned properly prior to staining. The stainers who do work for the retail trade do not like to clean a blade perfectly before they do the stain, because if a blade is left with a little residue from a previous stain it will reactivate and the job is done much more quickly and easily. This is the reason that I prefer to clean my own blades before I put them in to be stained, additionally I refuse to permit my staining to be done by some people. You mention that you had already cleaned the blade before you sent it to be cleaned, but a perfectly clean blade can grow rust overnight in Indonesia. Additionally, the person who did the stain probably paid less attention to the finish polish before staining, simply because it was clean. To get anything done acceptably in Solo you need to be there and monitor the work, if not you get an "asal jadi" job, ie, "as long as its done". Quality, pride of craftsmanship is very rare, and if you can find somebody who takes pride in his work, you will get on a queue and wait, and then pay, pay, pay. Things like swords that have the blade firmly fixed into the hilt with jabung are a bit of a problem, because to do this job properly, the blade should be demounted and then remounted when the stain is complete. Your sword blade was not demounted.The reason that it was not demounted is that for a long time it has been almost impossible to find somebody in Solo who understands how to make and use jabung, and for that matter, how to demount a blade without causing damage. Put as plainly as possible, in my opinion most of the people who service the trade in Solo are half educated , ham handed tinkerers. I do not know of one genuine m'ranggi who is still working. I'm talking Solo all the time, because this is the pond I swim in, but I have no reason to believe things are better elsewhere. If you want a good stain job on your blade you will need to learn the necessary skills to do it yourself. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 27th June 2018 at 03:04 PM.

21st June 2018, 12:37 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	GREAT WORK!

21st June 2018, 01:01 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Roland, Lovely etching in the traditional manner. It makes a huge difference. Ian.

27th June 2018, 11:52 AM	#5
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	One member of the forum asked about the traces of active rust and that it is a good idea in his opinion, to remove all rust before warangan. Ther rust came to the blade after warangan and during the transport back to Germany! They forgot to use oil after warangan! No respect for their own work! I was pretty disappointed and angry, when i saw that poor mishap after many hours of restoring! I will never ever again send one of my blades to Indonesia for warangan! Roland

27th June 2018, 12:20 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Roland, IMHO it does not look too bad - will be necessary to keep this blade very well oiled and free of dust in a dry environment though. Longtime soaking in alkaline oil may help to remove most of the active rust; in the pittings there seem to be leftovers of inactive rust, too. I do understand that it wasn't feasible to grind off all the pitted areas and agree that it was preferable to not loose too much of the material. When going for a full blade restoration like this, I try to remove all rust (which includes tedious manual picking) before the final (or pre-final) grade of sanding; stabilizing the surface of these crevices with tannic acid and possibly hard wax will help to avoid active rust to reappear during etching and later storage. Quite difficult to achieve given the vagaries of international processing/shipping though. Regards, Kai