Colonial hanger, Spanish dagger or ?

M ELEY · 18th November 2009, 01:02 PM

Here it is. Well, now you can see why I hate posting pics.

First, two hours of photos too big to download. With editing, thought I solved problem, but ended up with this. AQnyway, will try to upload more that can actually be seen!

fernando · 18th November 2009, 01:29 PM

Him Mark,
You don't need to exhaust yourself, trying to tame the beast.
Jst email the pictures to me (for one) as they are, and i will be glad to resize and post them on your behalf.
Fernando

celtan · 18th November 2009, 03:28 PM

Hi Eley,

Why don't you simply open a free account on Photobucket.com, and then simply copy/paste the image code or image thumb at the end of your post?

It saves website space and provides a large image.

BTW, Jim'bo ist ein expert in espadas anchas...

Best to ye' et Nando

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Here it is. Well, now you can see why I hate posting pics.

First, two hours of photos too big to download. With editing, thought I solved problem, but ended up with this. AQnyway, will try to upload more that can actually be seen!

Rick · 18th November 2009, 03:56 PM

We'd rather these pictures be uploaded to the forum for continuity.

When they disappear as links in time as they will; we will have nothing to show to people searching the database .

Please be kind and upload your pics .

katana · 18th November 2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

We'd rather these pictures be uploaded to the forum for continuity.

When they disappear as links in time as they will; we will have nothing to show to people searching the database .

Please be kind and upload your pics .

Hi Rick

,
I couldn't agree more....its infuriating when reading older threads and finding no pictures (broken links)

All the best
Regards David

Jim McDougall · 18th November 2009, 06:08 PM

Hi Mark,
Thank you for posting this!!!! You know I get weak in the knees every time I see one of these, and Manolo thank you so much for the kind words...although Im no expert I do readily admit my passion for them.

Mark, its good to see the progress you've made, and I must tell you that while a lot of folks are pretty comfortable with the dynamics of these magic boxes.....it took me more years than I care to admit to finally figure out how to post things. Actually my co-pilot here (my wife) is the tech support around here, and she finally helped me with getting it done...and once I had done it a few times, it became less of a mystery.

Fernando, very kind gesture there sir!!! A true gentleman you are

I agree, these threads are intended to stand as a virtual archives for future collectors queries and research, and its important to keep their integrity with images intact.

Thank you so much for posting this, and I'd really like to get some discussion going on espada anchas.

All best regards,
Jim

Emanuel · 18th November 2009, 06:29 PM

Hello,

I imagine these were seen in the Phillipines as well. Here is a tourist oddity from a while back that seems to combine the tradition of the espada with fantasy nihonto.

Regards,
Emanuel

celtan · 18th November 2009, 09:53 PM

oopsies!

And I thought I was helping by not downloading the actual pic....

Zorry!

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

We'd rather these pictures be uploaded to the forum for continuity.

When they disappear as links in time as they will; we will have nothing to show to people searching the database .

Please be kind and upload your pics .

M ELEY · 19th November 2009, 01:14 AM

Thanks, everyone, for replying and coming to my aid.

Fernando, I may take you up on that. I'm going to try one more time and if I fail, I'll PM you. Thank you so much for the offer. Pics aren't the best, but they should get the point across once properly sized...

Jim, I also have a "co-pilot" in all things gadgety, namely my 13 y.o. daughter-

. In any case, I'm still not sure if this piece is an espada or a colonial American piece. I will hopefully be posting better pics soon. Thanks!

celtan · 19th November 2009, 01:36 AM

Marc, is your OS Windows or Mac?

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Thanks, everyone, for replying and coming to my aid.

Fernando, I may take you up on that. I'm going to try one more time and if I fail, I'll PM you. Thank you so much for the offer. Pics aren't the best, but they should get the point across once properly sized...

Jim, I also have a "co-pilot" in all things gadgety, namely my 13 y.o. daughter-

. In any case, I'm still not sure if this piece is an espada or a colonial American piece. I will hopefully be posting better pics soon. Thanks!

colin henshaw · 21st November 2009, 02:42 PM

Hi

I've just stumbled across this post...I'm fairly sure this is a West African sword (as mentioned by Katana), copied from the European type. Probably Fon (Dahomey) or Akan (Ghana). I've had knives from that area with lead inlay to the handle, in the past.

The forest kingdoms of West Africa had a long period of contact with Europeans and copied their weapons etc extensively.

A very interesting piece.

Regards.

katana · 21st November 2009, 07:29 PM

Hi Mark,
there seems to be markings/numerals near the hilt, is that the case ?

David

Dmitry · 22nd November 2009, 04:41 AM

I don't think this piece has much age to it. Other than that I don't have anything to add in terms of constructive input. Perhaps someone will come up with a more definite attribution.

colin henshaw · 17th January 2010, 12:30 PM

Hi Mark

The whole subject of West Africa, the slave trade, trade in gold, ivory etc and European contact and colonialism, is a huge one, and there are many good books on the subject.

Certainly, the sword has a connection with the slave trade and shipping, so I guess there is always a possibility that piracy could come into it somewhere... Research required !

Regards
Colin

M ELEY · 18th January 2010, 02:13 PM

Thanks, Colin for your input and PM on this piece. You are right about the research, but I am looking forward to it, as it is a fascinating and tragic tale. That dagger you had was an impressive piece. I'll let everyone know if there are any new developments...

colin henshaw · 14th January 2010, 05:04 PM

Hi

I finally laid my hands on this photo I took of a dagger from the Akan (Ghana) area in West Africa, that I owned some years ago. It can be seen the dagger has a similar style of lead inlay decoration applied to the wooden handle, including a spiral form (albeit on a smaller scale).

Another point to note is....a comparison of the West African sword posted by Fernando in August 2008 with this one...the general style and "crudeness" in both swords is quite close.

I'm say, 80% sure Mark's sword if from the forest Kingdoms of West Africa...

Regards.

M ELEY · 16th January 2010, 04:09 AM

Hello Colin and thank you so much for replying,

FINALLY! Definitive proof of lead strapwork on a W African piece. It is nice to finally find proof and catagorize these mystery pieces. Now the only question for me is...is there any connection with the pirate trade? If so, even a weak one and I'll keep the piece. Otherwise, it's off to eBay!

Many of the pirates dealt in the "Black Ivory Trade" as it was called, and I know that the Afon and Dahomey were associated with the trade. Was Ghana? Of course, the pirate/slave connection ended a century or more before slavery itself did, but again if a connection can be made, the piece stays. I'll have to do some research on Ghana. Were they as sea-faring people, like the Barbary corsairs? Research...

18th November 2009, 01:02 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,085	Colonial hanger, Spanish dagger or ? Here it is. Well, now you can see why I hate posting pics. First, two hours of photos too big to download. With editing, thought I solved problem, but ended up with this. AQnyway, will try to upload more that can actually be seen! Attached Images

21st November 2009, 07:29 PM	#12
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Mark, there seems to be markings/numerals near the hilt, is that the case ? David Attached Images

14th January 2010, 05:04 PM	#16
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi I finally laid my hands on this photo I took of a dagger from the Akan (Ghana) area in West Africa, that I owned some years ago. It can be seen the dagger has a similar style of lead inlay decoration applied to the wooden handle, including a spiral form (albeit on a smaller scale). Another point to note is....a comparison of the West African sword posted by Fernando in August 2008 with this one...the general style and "crudeness" in both swords is quite close. I'm say, 80% sure Mark's sword if from the forest Kingdoms of West Africa... Regards. Attached Images

18th November 2009, 01:29 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,682	Him Mark, You don't need to exhaust yourself, trying to tame the beast. Jst email the pictures to me (for one) as they are, and i will be glad to resize and post them on your behalf. Fernando

18th November 2009, 03:56 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,273	We'd rather these pictures be uploaded to the forum for continuity. When they disappear as links in time as they will; we will have nothing to show to people searching the database . Please be kind and upload your pics .

18th November 2009, 06:08 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,840	Hi Mark, Thank you for posting this!!!! You know I get weak in the knees every time I see one of these, and Manolo thank you so much for the kind words...although Im no expert I do readily admit my passion for them. Mark, its good to see the progress you've made, and I must tell you that while a lot of folks are pretty comfortable with the dynamics of these magic boxes.....it took me more years than I care to admit to finally figure out how to post things. Actually my co-pilot here (my wife) is the tech support around here, and she finally helped me with getting it done...and once I had done it a few times, it became less of a mystery. Fernando, very kind gesture there sir!!! A true gentleman you are I agree, these threads are intended to stand as a virtual archives for future collectors queries and research, and its important to keep their integrity with images intact. Thank you so much for posting this, and I'd really like to get some discussion going on espada anchas. All best regards, Jim

18th November 2009, 06:29 PM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello, I imagine these were seen in the Phillipines as well. Here is a tourist oddity from a while back that seems to combine the tradition of the espada with fantasy nihonto. Regards, Emanuel

19th November 2009, 01:14 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,085	Thanks, everyone, for replying and coming to my aid. Fernando, I may take you up on that. I'm going to try one more time and if I fail, I'll PM you. Thank you so much for the offer. Pics aren't the best, but they should get the point across once properly sized... Jim, I also have a "co-pilot" in all things gadgety, namely my 13 y.o. daughter- . In any case, I'm still not sure if this piece is an espada or a colonial American piece. I will hopefully be posting better pics soon. Thanks!

21st November 2009, 02:42 PM	#11
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi I've just stumbled across this post...I'm fairly sure this is a West African sword (as mentioned by Katana), copied from the European type. Probably Fon (Dahomey) or Akan (Ghana). I've had knives from that area with lead inlay to the handle, in the past. The forest kingdoms of West Africa had a long period of contact with Europeans and copied their weapons etc extensively. A very interesting piece. Regards.

22nd November 2009, 04:41 AM	#13
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I don't think this piece has much age to it. Other than that I don't have anything to add in terms of constructive input. Perhaps someone will come up with a more definite attribution.

17th January 2010, 12:30 PM	#14
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi Mark The whole subject of West Africa, the slave trade, trade in gold, ivory etc and European contact and colonialism, is a huge one, and there are many good books on the subject. Certainly, the sword has a connection with the slave trade and shipping, so I guess there is always a possibility that piracy could come into it somewhere... Research required ! Regards Colin

18th January 2010, 02:13 PM	#15
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,085	Thanks, Colin for your input and PM on this piece. You are right about the research, but I am looking forward to it, as it is a fascinating and tragic tale. That dagger you had was an impressive piece. I'll let everyone know if there are any new developments...

16th January 2010, 04:09 AM	#17
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,085	Hello Colin and thank you so much for replying, FINALLY! Definitive proof of lead strapwork on a W African piece. It is nice to finally find proof and catagorize these mystery pieces. Now the only question for me is...is there any connection with the pirate trade? If so, even a weak one and I'll keep the piece. Otherwise, it's off to eBay! Many of the pirates dealt in the "Black Ivory Trade" as it was called, and I know that the Afon and Dahomey were associated with the trade. Was Ghana? Of course, the pirate/slave connection ended a century or more before slavery itself did, but again if a connection can be made, the piece stays. I'll have to do some research on Ghana. Were they as sea-faring people, like the Barbary corsairs? Research...