shark tooth weapon.

chregu · 21st February 2010, 09:44 PM

good evening
Would like to like to show you one of my favorites. Length 39.5 cm Width 4.5 cm
Have a few questions about this shark tooth weapon.
where those weapons come from everywhere? (according to Stone, Kingsmills Island)
what kind of wood that could be and what kind of shark teeth that might be?
how old the weapon be?
is the condition good?
how rare something?
Many thanks for any help
gruss chregu

VANDOO · 21st February 2010, 11:06 PM

DUE TO ITS SIZE IT FALLS INTO THE CATEGORY OF DAGGER, I WOULD ESTIMATE IT TO BE NO NEWER THAN THE 1930'S AND IS LIKELY OLDER. IT IS IN GOOD CONDITION FOR ITS TYPE AND AGE, THE CORD BINDINGS AND SHARK TEETH BECOME BRITTLE WITH AGE AND WHERE THE TEETH ARE DRILLED ALSO WEAKENS THEM.
THE ISLANDS WERE CALLED BY SEVERAL DIFFERENT NAMES OVER THE YEARS MARSHALL ISLANDS, GILBERT ISLANDS, KINGSMILL ISLANDS AND NOW ARE CALLED KIRABATI. ONE WAY TO GET AN IDEA OF AGE IS BY ANY WRITINGS ON TAGS OR PROVENANCE. THE BRITISH HELD THE ISLANDS FIRST THEN THE GERMANS THEN THE JAPANESE AND AFTER WW2 THE USA WATCHED OVER THEM UNTIL THEIR INDEPENDENCE.
I SUSPECT THE SHARK TEETH USED ARE MOST LIKELY OCEANIC WHITETIP OR PERHAPS BULL SHARK. MOST EXAMPLES I HAVE SEEN HAVE ONLY ONE TYPE OF SHARK TEETH BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE TYPE SHARK REPRESENTED ON A WEAPON DUE TO LATER REPLACEMENT. A SET OF SHARK JAWS HAS MORE THAN ENOUGH TEETH TO MAKE SEVERAL SUCH DAGGERS AND THE TEETH ON THE LOWER JAW DO DIFFER FROM THOSE ON THE UPPER SO YOU WILL SEE SOME DIFFERENCES. ON YOUR EXAMPLE THE LARGER WIDER TEETH ARE UPPER TEETH AND THE DIFFERENT SHAPED ONES FROM THE LOWER JAW. THE HOLES DRILLED IN YOUR TEETH ARE CRUDE AND THE FIBER CORD IS PROPER OLD HAND MADE KIND AND THE HANDLE LEFT CRUDE (I WONDER IF THEY WERE ORIGINALLY COVERED WITH SOME SORT OF FIBER WHICH IS NOW MISSING, BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN OLD EXAMPLE WITH A FIBER COVER) ALL OF THE ABOVE INDICATE AGE, THE BLADE IS ALSO PROPPER FOR OLD EXAMPLES WITH THE RAISED CENTER. THE BRITTLE FIBER CORD AND PATINA ARE CONSISTANT FOR A OLD TRADITIONALLY MADE DAGGER. I HOPE THIS ANSWERS SOME QUESTIONS YOU CAN ALSO GOOGLE THE VARIOUS ISLAND NAMES AND READ THE HISTORY OF THE AREA AND PERHAPS FIND MORE ON THE ANCIENT SOCIETY. CONGRADULATIONS A NICE SPECIMIN

fearn · 21st February 2010, 11:35 PM

Hi Chregu,

These have shown up previously (here and here among other places). I think they're still making these for tourists in Kiribati.

Name: Tetoanea. Te is the definite particle, like "the" in English (calling it "the tetoanea" is a duplication). Tebutje (Stone's name) isn't a word in I-Kiribati. I-Kiribati is similar to Polynesian languages, in that a consonants always followed by a vowel, and they don't have "j". No one's figured out where tebutje came from, to my knowledge.

As Vandoo noted, it's probably from Kiribati (which is an indigenous version of "Gilbert" from the old name, Gilbert Islands. They didn't have a collective name for the archipelago before, and adopted the English name). On the longer weapons (e.g. te unun), they usually brace the teeth with splints along the base, under the wrapping (look here to see what I'm talking about). The wood appears to be coconut, outside possibility of it being pandanus.

I agree with Vandoo on the teeth as well--they look like they're from a requiem shark which includes both bull and reef white tip.

Best,

F
Tetoanea

Nathaniel · 22nd February 2010, 01:16 AM

Chregu,

These shark tooth weapons are truly wicked...I would hate to see the nasty gashes made by a slash with one of these. The Bishop Museum in Honolulu, Hawai'i in the USA has a fantastic weapons collection that are shark teeth lined...that is the extent of what I've seen

Thanks for sharing..and comments Fern and Vandoo

chregu · 22nd February 2010, 09:47 PM

hello together
Many thanks to you all for your help.
a piece of information I have forgotten, this weapon I have, together with other objects from a legacy of a captain of the 1915-1925 was purchased at sea. He has brought many beautiful souvenirs to take home from all over the world.
gruss chregu

fearn · 22nd February 2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Chregu,

These shark tooth weapons are truly wicked...I would hate to see the nasty gashes made by a slash with one of these. The Bishop Museum in Honolulu, Hawai'i in the USA has a fantastic weapons collection that are shark teeth lined...that is the extent of what I've seen

Thanks for sharing..and comments Fern and Vandoo

Back a number of years ago, a forumite actually chopped some cardboard with a shark-tooth weapon, just to see how it cut. He wasn't able to slash with it. As I recall, the teeth went in just fine, but when he pulled for the draw cut, the teeth grabbed rather than slicing. So instead of getting sliced by one of these, apparently you get a row of puncture wounds to gashes.

Hopefully that thread is sitting in the old archives somewhere. The archive search doesn't seem to be working at the moment.

Best,

F

VANDOO · 23rd February 2010, 12:15 AM

THE DAGGER THAT STARTED THIS POST IS STRAIGHT AND HAS A LANYARD SO I SUSPECT IT WAS ONLY USED FOR A DAGGER. THERE ARE MANY SIMULAR CURVED DAGGERS THAT WERE OFTEN USED AS GAURDS ON THE LONGER WEAPONS AND ARE OFTEN FOUND DETACHED.

A PICTURE OF THIS GAURD IT HAS A SINGLE BUT I HAVE SEEN THEM WITH A DOUBBLE GAURD.

A PICTURE OF A SAWFISH WEAPON WHICH I THINK IS PROBABLY THE INSPIRATION FOR SHARK TOOTH WEAPONS OF THE SORT FOUND ON THE GILBERT IS. IT IS NOT A SLASHING WEAPON BUT ONE THAT INFLICTS DEEP MULTIPLE PUNCTURES AND POSSIBLY BROKEN BONES.

A PICTURE OF A WARRIOR IN ARMOR WITH A LONG POLE ARM I HAVE SEEN A 6 FOOT ONE BUT THIS APPEARS TO BE LONGER.

A EXAMPLE OF A OLD CURVED SWORD 25 INCHES LONG

A EXAMPLE OF THE CURRENT SOUVINEER OR CEREMONIAL TYPE WITH DECORATIVE FIBER COVER.

21st February 2010, 09:44 PM	#1
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	shark tooth weapon. good evening Would like to like to show you one of my favorites. Length 39.5 cm Width 4.5 cm Have a few questions about this shark tooth weapon. where those weapons come from everywhere? (according to Stone, Kingsmills Island) what kind of wood that could be and what kind of shark teeth that might be? how old the weapon be? is the condition good? how rare something? Many thanks for any help gruss chregu Attached Images

22nd February 2010, 09:47 PM	#5
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	Many thanks to you all for your help hello together Many thanks to you all for your help. a piece of information I have forgotten, this weapon I have, together with other objects from a legacy of a captain of the 1915-1925 was purchased at sea. He has brought many beautiful souvenirs to take home from all over the world. gruss chregu

23rd February 2010, 12:15 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE DAGGER THAT STARTED THIS POST IS STRAIGHT AND HAS A LANYARD SO I SUSPECT IT WAS ONLY USED FOR A DAGGER. THERE ARE MANY SIMULAR CURVED DAGGERS THAT WERE OFTEN USED AS GAURDS ON THE LONGER WEAPONS AND ARE OFTEN FOUND DETACHED. A PICTURE OF THIS GAURD IT HAS A SINGLE BUT I HAVE SEEN THEM WITH A DOUBBLE GAURD. A PICTURE OF A SAWFISH WEAPON WHICH I THINK IS PROBABLY THE INSPIRATION FOR SHARK TOOTH WEAPONS OF THE SORT FOUND ON THE GILBERT IS. IT IS NOT A SLASHING WEAPON BUT ONE THAT INFLICTS DEEP MULTIPLE PUNCTURES AND POSSIBLY BROKEN BONES. A PICTURE OF A WARRIOR IN ARMOR WITH A LONG POLE ARM I HAVE SEEN A 6 FOOT ONE BUT THIS APPEARS TO BE LONGER. A EXAMPLE OF A OLD CURVED SWORD 25 INCHES LONG A EXAMPLE OF THE CURRENT SOUVINEER OR CEREMONIAL TYPE WITH DECORATIVE FIBER COVER. Attached Images

21st February 2010, 11:06 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	DUE TO ITS SIZE IT FALLS INTO THE CATEGORY OF DAGGER, I WOULD ESTIMATE IT TO BE NO NEWER THAN THE 1930'S AND IS LIKELY OLDER. IT IS IN GOOD CONDITION FOR ITS TYPE AND AGE, THE CORD BINDINGS AND SHARK TEETH BECOME BRITTLE WITH AGE AND WHERE THE TEETH ARE DRILLED ALSO WEAKENS THEM. THE ISLANDS WERE CALLED BY SEVERAL DIFFERENT NAMES OVER THE YEARS MARSHALL ISLANDS, GILBERT ISLANDS, KINGSMILL ISLANDS AND NOW ARE CALLED KIRABATI. ONE WAY TO GET AN IDEA OF AGE IS BY ANY WRITINGS ON TAGS OR PROVENANCE. THE BRITISH HELD THE ISLANDS FIRST THEN THE GERMANS THEN THE JAPANESE AND AFTER WW2 THE USA WATCHED OVER THEM UNTIL THEIR INDEPENDENCE. I SUSPECT THE SHARK TEETH USED ARE MOST LIKELY OCEANIC WHITETIP OR PERHAPS BULL SHARK. MOST EXAMPLES I HAVE SEEN HAVE ONLY ONE TYPE OF SHARK TEETH BUT IT IS POSSIBLE THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN ONE TYPE SHARK REPRESENTED ON A WEAPON DUE TO LATER REPLACEMENT. A SET OF SHARK JAWS HAS MORE THAN ENOUGH TEETH TO MAKE SEVERAL SUCH DAGGERS AND THE TEETH ON THE LOWER JAW DO DIFFER FROM THOSE ON THE UPPER SO YOU WILL SEE SOME DIFFERENCES. ON YOUR EXAMPLE THE LARGER WIDER TEETH ARE UPPER TEETH AND THE DIFFERENT SHAPED ONES FROM THE LOWER JAW. THE HOLES DRILLED IN YOUR TEETH ARE CRUDE AND THE FIBER CORD IS PROPER OLD HAND MADE KIND AND THE HANDLE LEFT CRUDE (I WONDER IF THEY WERE ORIGINALLY COVERED WITH SOME SORT OF FIBER WHICH IS NOW MISSING, BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN OLD EXAMPLE WITH A FIBER COVER) ALL OF THE ABOVE INDICATE AGE, THE BLADE IS ALSO PROPPER FOR OLD EXAMPLES WITH THE RAISED CENTER. THE BRITTLE FIBER CORD AND PATINA ARE CONSISTANT FOR A OLD TRADITIONALLY MADE DAGGER. I HOPE THIS ANSWERS SOME QUESTIONS YOU CAN ALSO GOOGLE THE VARIOUS ISLAND NAMES AND READ THE HISTORY OF THE AREA AND PERHAPS FIND MORE ON THE ANCIENT SOCIETY. CONGRADULATIONS A NICE SPECIMIN

21st February 2010, 11:35 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Chregu, These have shown up previously (here and here among other places). I think they're still making these for tourists in Kiribati. Name: Tetoanea. Te is the definite particle, like "the" in English (calling it "the tetoanea" is a duplication). Tebutje (Stone's name) isn't a word in I-Kiribati. I-Kiribati is similar to Polynesian languages, in that a consonants always followed by a vowel, and they don't have "j". No one's figured out where tebutje came from, to my knowledge. As Vandoo noted, it's probably from Kiribati (which is an indigenous version of "Gilbert" from the old name, Gilbert Islands. They didn't have a collective name for the archipelago before, and adopted the English name). On the longer weapons (e.g. te unun), they usually brace the teeth with splints along the base, under the wrapping (look here to see what I'm talking about). The wood appears to be coconut, outside possibility of it being pandanus. I agree with Vandoo on the teeth as well--they look like they're from a requiem shark which includes both bull and reef white tip. Best, F Tetoanea

22nd February 2010, 01:16 AM	#4
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Chregu, These shark tooth weapons are truly wicked...I would hate to see the nasty gashes made by a slash with one of these. The Bishop Museum in Honolulu, Hawai'i in the USA has a fantastic weapons collection that are shark teeth lined...that is the extent of what I've seen Thanks for sharing..and comments Fern and Vandoo