Swept Hilt Rapier – Urgent help needed?

Cathey · 12th October 2010, 09:21 AM

Hi Guys

I have the opportunity to purchase this sword but do not know if it is real or a Victorian copy. Our Field is basket hilts and Georgian swords and I do not see a lot of Rapiers and tend to buy early swords only from a well respected source. The provenance of this sword is unknown; any help would be greatly appreciated as I have only till Friday to make a decision to pursue or walk away.

Pictures posted in folder.

Cheers Cathey

Dmitry · 12th October 2010, 03:04 PM

My $.02 which should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt. I would wager that not only the grip wiring, but the whole grip is a replacement. I may be wrong, but the hilt construction appears unusual, and I wouldn't be surprised if, upon close examination, it was discovered that a couple of branches were removed. The condition of the blade does not correspond with the condition of the hilt. Whether these were period alterations, I can't say.

Dmitry · 12th October 2010, 06:11 PM

This is how this sword may have looked like originally.

Cathey · 12th October 2010, 09:28 PM

Hi, the sword has never had intersecting parts between the rings and this is quite common of swords of this age. The blade has been heavily cleaned/buffed. I am resonably confident in the blade as it is extremely long and flexible. Most copies I have seen are considerably shorter.

Cheers Cathey

Dmitry · 12th October 2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi, the sword has never had intersecting parts between the rings and this is quite common of swords of this age. The blade has been heavily cleaned/buffed. I am resonably confident in the blade as it is extremely long and flexible. Most copies I have seen are considerably shorter.

Cheers Cathey

I did not suggest that the blade or the hilt were replicas.
Again [in my meager experience] unaltered period examples of this style, without the rear branches, are uncommon.
I guess I was lead astray by the title of this thread - "Urgent Help Needed".
You appear to be quite confident that the sword is right. Please post some better photos of the hilt, once you acquire it!

fernando · 12th October 2010, 09:48 PM

Hi Cathey,
Let's hope further coments to be posted before Friday !
Taking into account that Dmitry knows a lot about these things ... i know nothing. But i must say that this sword looks unsuspicious to me

If i was offered such piece, i would most probably buy it ... if i had the money

But by no means you should take my impression into a valued factor!

Cathey · 12th October 2010, 10:17 PM

Hi Dmitry,

no you have not misunderstood me, I always have doubts. The Sword was dropped off for inspection last night and we had to take photos under less than ideal conditions. The more I handle it the more I like the blade which has been mechanically cleaned. I have found this not to be uncommon in swords out of the UK where I suspect this come from; however I question why the hilt did not require the same treatment and wonder if this is not a marriage. In Australia we do not see many rapiers in the flesh and I have been offered this sword previously and walked away. I will see if my Rex can try and take some better pictures today while I am at work weather permitting. Sadly I would love it to be right and hope that I am not talking myself into that position.

Cheers Cathey

12th October 2010, 09:21 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 276	Swept Hilt Rapier – Urgent help needed? Hi Guys I have the opportunity to purchase this sword but do not know if it is real or a Victorian copy. Our Field is basket hilts and Georgian swords and I do not see a lot of Rapiers and tend to buy early swords only from a well respected source. The provenance of this sword is unknown; any help would be greatly appreciated as I have only till Friday to make a decision to pursue or walk away. Pictures posted in folder. Cheers Cathey Attached Images

12th October 2010, 06:11 PM	#3
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	This is how this sword may have looked like originally. Attached Images

12th October 2010, 10:17 PM	#7
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 276	Rapier Hi Dmitry, no you have not misunderstood me, I always have doubts. The Sword was dropped off for inspection last night and we had to take photos under less than ideal conditions. The more I handle it the more I like the blade which has been mechanically cleaned. I have found this not to be uncommon in swords out of the UK where I suspect this come from; however I question why the hilt did not require the same treatment and wonder if this is not a marriage. In Australia we do not see many rapiers in the flesh and I have been offered this sword previously and walked away. I will see if my Rex can try and take some better pictures today while I am at work weather permitting. Sadly I would love it to be right and hope that I am not talking myself into that position. Cheers Cathey

12th October 2010, 03:04 PM	#2
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	My $.02 which should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt. I would wager that not only the grip wiring, but the whole grip is a replacement. I may be wrong, but the hilt construction appears unusual, and I wouldn't be surprised if, upon close examination, it was discovered that a couple of branches were removed. The condition of the blade does not correspond with the condition of the hilt. Whether these were period alterations, I can't say.

12th October 2010, 09:28 PM	#4
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 276	Hi, the sword has never had intersecting parts between the rings and this is quite common of swords of this age. The blade has been heavily cleaned/buffed. I am resonably confident in the blade as it is extremely long and flexible. Most copies I have seen are considerably shorter. Cheers Cathey

12th October 2010, 09:48 PM	#6
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Cathey, Let's hope further coments to be posted before Friday ! Taking into account that Dmitry knows a lot about these things ... i know nothing. But i must say that this sword looks unsuspicious to me If i was offered such piece, i would most probably buy it ... if i had the money But by no means you should take my impression into a valued factor!