Indian battlement gun

Mefidk · 18th February 2012, 10:26 AM

Hi folks

Thought this might be of interest. Perhaps not very pretty, but I like it since it is by far the longest of my weapons, being 223.5cm long, barrel of 171cm and a bore of 17.7mm

Pretty reliable information suggests that this was bought as part of a job lot directly from the armoury in Jaipur and then sold to dealer in the UK. So this should be some of the weaponry stored by the British, perhaps after the fourth Anglo-Mysore war.

The wood behind the barrel is not original, and appears to have come from another gun of the same size (perhaps one of the others in the job lot). Sadly someone has carried out some rather over-vigorous cleaning, but the stamps and markings are still visible. The stamp seems to indicate the provenance is correct, although I don't know how to decifer the code I guess JPR is for Jaipur.

At the base of the barrel on the other side form the stamp is another set of inscribed marks. Could these be original Indian armoury marks?

The arab gun is just for scale

Chris

Iain · 18th February 2012, 12:21 PM

I know nothing about these... But I like what I see.

Very impressive gun and to have fairly precise provenance is fantastic.

Mefidk · 19th February 2012, 11:25 AM

Thanks Iain - always nice to have someone else appreciate these

By the way I forgot to mention that there is another number (1889) stamped into onse side of the stock.
I'd certainly be interested if anyone can tell me what the various numbers mean, or at least a guess at who added them when?

Chris

rickystl · 3rd April 2012, 06:07 PM

Hi Chris. I've been away from the Forum for a couple months. Playing catch up with the neat gun Posts.
Indian Toridor Matchlock. Yes, too bad about the over-cleaning. But nice you can get at least some identification. The 1889 may be a later rack/inventory number? The British were good at documenting everything. I hope my response here will prompt some more comments. Note that the stocks for these Matchlocks were made in segments. Two or three depending on the length of the barrel.
Here are a couple pics of mine just for comparison. Thanks for Posting. Rick.

Richard G · 3rd April 2012, 06:58 PM

Hello.
I have always understood the the large stamped marks in english are Indian goverment export marks. At one time I think a year of export was decipherable but it is difficult to find anything sensible here. I think the main point is that the mark does not necessarilly signify the gun is from the Jaipur armoury but that it was approved for export in Jaipur, (at the armoury?) The purpose was to stop significant and important items being exported. Ironically, I understand, Indian gun laws are so tight that even items such as these cannot be owned privately without a license and hence remain stored in armouries, unless exported.
Might just be collector's gossip tho'.
Regards
Richard

Mefidk · 5th May 2012, 08:53 AM

Thanks for the input guys - apologies for not getting back sooner.

I've not been able to find anything else out about these numbers. I did find this for sale recently (unfortunately I did not buy it).
Apart from the last four digits the numbers are the same, so this indicates a system of some sort. Whether its inventory numbers or export as suggested by Richard I have no idea.

My only other toradar has 485 stamped on the stock, but no numbers on the barrel. But I guess there are many routes to Europe for these and not all would have been controlled (e.g. if it was a war bring back), so the absence of numbers does not prove anything either way.

Chris

18th February 2012, 10:26 AM	#1
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Indian battlement gun Hi folks Thought this might be of interest. Perhaps not very pretty, but I like it since it is by far the longest of my weapons, being 223.5cm long, barrel of 171cm and a bore of 17.7mm Pretty reliable information suggests that this was bought as part of a job lot directly from the armoury in Jaipur and then sold to dealer in the UK. So this should be some of the weaponry stored by the British, perhaps after the fourth Anglo-Mysore war. The wood behind the barrel is not original, and appears to have come from another gun of the same size (perhaps one of the others in the job lot). Sadly someone has carried out some rather over-vigorous cleaning, but the stamps and markings are still visible. The stamp seems to indicate the provenance is correct, although I don't know how to decifer the code I guess JPR is for Jaipur. At the base of the barrel on the other side form the stamp is another set of inscribed marks. Could these be original Indian armoury marks? The arab gun is just for scale Chris Attached Images

19th February 2012, 11:25 AM	#3
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks Iain - always nice to have someone else appreciate these By the way I forgot to mention that there is another number (1889) stamped into onse side of the stock. I'd certainly be interested if anyone can tell me what the various numbers mean, or at least a guess at who added them when? Chris Attached Images

3rd April 2012, 06:07 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Chris. I've been away from the Forum for a couple months. Playing catch up with the neat gun Posts. Indian Toridor Matchlock. Yes, too bad about the over-cleaning. But nice you can get at least some identification. The 1889 may be a later rack/inventory number? The British were good at documenting everything. I hope my response here will prompt some more comments. Note that the stocks for these Matchlocks were made in segments. Two or three depending on the length of the barrel. Here are a couple pics of mine just for comparison. Thanks for Posting. Rick. Attached Images

3rd April 2012, 06:58 PM	#5
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 406	Hello. I have always understood the the large stamped marks in english are Indian goverment export marks. At one time I think a year of export was decipherable but it is difficult to find anything sensible here. I think the main point is that the mark does not necessarilly signify the gun is from the Jaipur armoury but that it was approved for export in Jaipur, (at the armoury?) The purpose was to stop significant and important items being exported. Ironically, I understand, Indian gun laws are so tight that even items such as these cannot be owned privately without a license and hence remain stored in armouries, unless exported. Might just be collector's gossip tho'. Regards Richard Last edited by Richard G; 3rd April 2012 at 07:28 PM.

5th May 2012, 08:53 AM	#6
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thanks for the input guys - apologies for not getting back sooner. I've not been able to find anything else out about these numbers. I did find this for sale recently (unfortunately I did not buy it). Apart from the last four digits the numbers are the same, so this indicates a system of some sort. Whether its inventory numbers or export as suggested by Richard I have no idea. My only other toradar has 485 stamped on the stock, but no numbers on the barrel. But I guess there are many routes to Europe for these and not all would have been controlled (e.g. if it was a war bring back), so the absence of numbers does not prove anything either way. Chris Attached Images

18th February 2012, 12:21 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	I know nothing about these... But I like what I see. Very impressive gun and to have fairly precise provenance is fantastic.