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Old 8th November 2010, 04:16 PM   #1
Lee
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Question Help requested with identifying some 14th century heraldry

The image below depicts a pair of shield devices inlaid in latten on a 14th century sword that was captured by the Mamelukes and ended up in the Alexandria arsenal.

As the European skirmishers at the time were based out of Cyprus, such a context may be the best starting point.

Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 8th November 2010, 07:15 PM   #2
cornelistromp
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Hi Lee,

This form of marking blade is classified in Group 3 of the 4 groups described by D. Alexander in "European swords in the collections of Istanbul."
this type of inlays in copper or brass which includes animals, unicorns, horses,birds, wolves and wild boars aswell letters, circles, rosettes, croisiers and crosses, is found in "wider blades, slightly tapered, with a central groove usually for about half its length, and of a flattened hexagonal section."

D.G Alexander states that this type of sword is often described as German.

The Coat of arms can maybe be found between German Crusader order out of the 14thC.

Kind regards
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Old 9th November 2010, 01:28 AM   #3
Reichsritter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
The image below depicts a pair of shield devices inlaid in latten on a 14th century sword that was captured by the Mamelukes and ended up in the Alexandria arsenal.

As the European skirmishers at the time were based out of Cyprus, such a context may be the best starting point.

Any help would be appreciated.
Hi Lee,

On the right shield.. is the Lion Rampant wears a crown ?
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Old 9th November 2010, 01:33 PM   #4
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Thumbs up House cat's ears?!?

Thank you gentlemen!

cornelistromp - I can confirm that the blade is exactly of the form you have predicted based upon the inscription.

Reichsritter - The beast (and I personally have also interpreted it as a lion) appears to have a pair of cat ears on a bare head (short and pointy ears with an intervening line for the scalp - so five short lines).

I do apologize for the photo quality - I will see what I can do about getting some decent overall and detail photographs.
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Old 9th November 2010, 04:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Thank you gentlemen!

cornelistromp - I can confirm that the blade is exactly of the form you have predicted based upon the inscription.

Reichsritter - The beast (and I personally have also interpreted it as a lion) appears to have a pair of cat ears on a bare head (short and pointy ears with an intervening line for the scalp - so five short lines).

I do apologize for the photo quality - I will see what I can do about getting some decent overall and detail photographs.
Thanks for the info Lee, The cross potent is obviously an early Teutonic symbol with reference to the illuminated manuscript of the poet Tannhäuser from the codex Mannesse (completed in Zurich around 1340).

Yes, at first glance it would look like a lion rampant but hundreds of families carry these symbol. I would like to narrow down that's why I asked if there was a crown. Well, as you say it has pointed ears that resemble a cat. It's now a hint where I should look next ;-) The shield on the left is difficult to identify...although the shield partition "per chevron angled" says it is gold/ yellow if drawn in colored.

By the way, the Teutonic knights has a bailiwick in Armenia-Cyprus
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Old 9th November 2010, 06:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reichsritter
Thanks for the info Lee, The cross potent is obviously an early Teutonic symbol with reference to the illuminated manuscript of the poet Tannhäuser from the codex Mannesse (completed in Zurich around 1340).

Yes, at first glance it would look like a lion rampant but hundreds of families carry these symbol. I would like to narrow down that's why I asked if there was a crown. Well, as you say it has pointed ears that resemble a cat. It's now a hint where I should look next ;-) The shield on the left is difficult to identify...although the shield partition "per chevron angled" says it is gold/ yellow if drawn in colored.

By the way, the Teutonic knights has a bailiwick in Armenia-Cyprus

yes this correct! the shield on the left is called "per chevron embattled" and the chevron embattled is hardly used in Germany but quite common in England and France.

Embattled is a version of chief, with signifies domination,white colors represent the sovereignty with peace and sincerity,gold symbolizes a constancy of generosity, lion represents bravery and ferocity (with generosity)or if it is a unicorn, Unicorn represents extreme courage and strength



Can you please post some better pictures of the Lion ( Unicorn?!?!)

thanks+regards

Last edited by cornelistromp; 9th November 2010 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 9th November 2010, 08:03 PM   #7
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Thumbs up Slightly improved [sic] pictures

Most interesting!

I believe these photos are just a bit clearer. I do apologize for the previous photo quality.
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