POWDER FLASKS FOR ID AND COMMENT

[kahnjar1]

Just picked up these two flasks, both of which appear to be from the same general region. I am guessing sub-Sahara Africa but I could be very wrong. They are very large.....approx. 16" (40cm) long. Stretched and sewn leather over horn???, and both have the same type of weave decoration.
The first is with me now, but the second is yet to arrive so the pics of that are the seller's.
Any assistance as to origin etc would be appreciated.
Stu

[rickystl]

Hi Stu.
I've always believed these very large horns were designed to carry extra powder to replenish the medium and smaller horns/flasks carried by individual warriors. I also thought the ones you picture above to be Moroccan in origin.
But I could be wrong. I'll look in my reference material tonight.
Rick

[rickystl]

Also, I've never seen one of this style that was NOT very large. I've always wanted one in a madium to smaller size, but never able to locate one. One about 9-10 inches long.
Rick

[Kubur]

Hi Stu,
If I'm not mistaken, it's a Manding powder horn.
The shape is very similar to the Massai milk containers.
But the decoration of yours is very West African, I would say Malian, not far from Morocco
Kubur

[kahnjar1]

Thanks Rick and Kubur for your thoughts. The two flasks were described at point of sale as Mandinka, but then descriptions can often be wrong as we all know.
Mali was my guess in fact, and there is a very large population of Mandinka in that country. Lets see what others think........
Rick....The size could suggest that they are used to carry large amounts of powder, either for individual use or to resupply other smaller flasks. Black powder used in some areas of the sub Sahara is "home made" and of large grain size, requiring more than what we in the "west" are used to charge a gun. That could be the reason that the flask is so large.
Stu

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Thanks Rick and Kubur for your thoughts. The two flasks were described at point of sale as Mandinka, but then descriptions can often be wrong as we all know.
Mali was my guess in fact, and there is a very large population of Mandinka in that country. Lets see what others think........
Rick....The size could suggest that they are used to carry large amounts of powder, either for individual use or to resupply other smaller flasks. Black powder used in some areas of the sub Sahara is "home made" and of large grain size, requiring more than what we in the "west" are used to charge a gun. That could be the reason that the flask is so large.
Stu

Stu, Mandinka and Manding are the same, so it's all good!

[colin henshaw]

I think these are of the same "made for sale " genre as other similarly constructed and decorated artefacts from West Africa, as discussed elsewhere on the forum. (spears, knives, covered tins etc). I believe they mainly emanate from the Sierra Leone area. Its possible the first horn shown once had a strip of leopard skin round the centre section ?

However, they can be of relatively early dates and might well have evolved from traditional forms.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

I think these are of the same "made for sale " genre as other similarly constructed and decorated artefacts from West Africa, as discussed elsewhere on the forum. (spears, knives, covered tins etc). I believe they mainly emanate from the Sierra Leone area. Its possible the first horn shown once had a strip of leopard skin round the centre section ?

However, they can be of relatively early dates and might well have evolved from traditional forms.

Yes, could be "modern-ish made" but a lot of time and effort has gone into their construction/decoration for a purely "tourist" market. There is also minute amounts of what looks like powder dust inside the one I have already received. The leather has also areas of significant "scuffing" which is unlikely to have been artificially done, but is rather due to wear in use.
The Mandinka people spread over a very large area of western Africa including Sierra Leone but appear mainly to inhabit Mali.
Yes it is very likely that the fabric covered section of the first flask was originally some sort of animal skin. The other one probably had a skin covered section also but this is now gone (or was never there).
Stu

[rickystl]

Black powder used in some areas of the sub Sahara is "home made" and of large grain size, requiring more than what we in the "west" are used to charge a gun. That could be the reason that the flask is so large.

Hi Stu.
Yes, good point. I've noticed that most of the horn-shaped Ethno powder containers tend to be larger than what were normally carried in Europe and North America.

Rick

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by rickystl

Black powder used in some areas of the sub Sahara is "home made" and of large grain size, requiring more than what we in the "west" are used to charge a gun. That could be the reason that the flask is so large.

Hi Stu.
Yes, good point. I've noticed that most of the horn-shaped Ethno powder containers tend to be larger than what were normally carried in Europe and North America.

Rick

Hi Rick, Yes and if you look at the (measured) charge size per container here on this Omani Bandolier, it is way more than double what we would use for a "standard charge" in a "western" muzzleloader.
Stu