Ever heard of a cannononball .. ovoid?

fernando · 22nd August 2010, 04:15 PM

This item lacks the basic condition for a ball, as it is not round ... but ovoid.
However the (non professional) seller guaranteed this is surely a cannonball, kept by the family for a long time and having been found in a place where actually plenty war confrontations took place, both internal and Napoleonic.
The weight and average diameter coincide with an 18 pounder.
Byt i don't think this thing could be fired as it is; neither its deformation could be achieved by rolling on the ground after being shot ... it wouldn't become so perfectly ovoid.
On the other hand, its texture looks exactky like that of a 18th or 19th century cannonball.
What do you gentlemen think of this?
Ever seen one like that?

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Matchlock · 22nd August 2010, 06:25 PM

Hi 'Nando,

I am afraid I've never seen or come across a cannonball of such unique shape - ovoidal!

What practical sense could it possibly have made?

Fitting and rotating in a cannon barrel? No way, I would say.

The only use I can think of would be throwing it from a catapult but then we would have to seek its "date of birth" in the 14th and 15th centuries.

Highly interesting piece anyway and one of the unsolved riddles in historic weaponry ...

Thank you for sharing this, and I do hope for some brainstorming from our members!

Best wishes from a completely stumped
Michael

kronckew · 22nd August 2010, 08:08 PM

interesting cannonball site:

Linky

my first impression of the faceted surface was it was a worn ball mill ball....

Jim McDougall · 22nd August 2010, 11:40 PM

I really dont know much on artillery or ballistics, but I am inclined to go along with Krockew and think it might be a mill ball, from another field foreign to me, metallurgy. I have learned a lot from discussions with you guys and others outside our discussions which have included some that brought up these rather mundane utility type objects, which still in thier own right, have become interesting antique items.

I would think that the ovoid shape would lend better to tumbling action, which would be important in crushing ore.

fernando · 23rd August 2010, 04:33 PM

Thank you all gentlemen, for your input.
I had already been in that link website during my browsing, Wayne.
It appears to me that this is not likely to be a mill ball.
Those spheres are usuallly hardened steel, whereas my example is iron.
I have phoned a cement maker technician; the wearing of mill balls has a smooth texture.
Also i think that a mill ball, worn by continuous random tumbling, would get a alietory shape due to its variable movimentation and not such a regular one, which looks to have been submited to a specific rotation, orientated in a linear direction.
I know nothing about metalurgy either, but probably a steel mill ball woud not degradate through time in the same manner, with such corrugated and scaled look.
A remote probability would be considering that this ball was used for "hot shot", having been "stretched" in its itinerary through the barrel or, not hitting a direct impact target, having rolled on the ground in a regular manner (drum like), before cooling down.
Thing is i don't even know if hotshot was used in Portugal

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Jim McDougall · 23rd August 2010, 05:39 PM

Fernando, beautifully explained and nicely done on the research on this! Thank you. As I mentioned, this is way outside my field of study and it's great to learn more on this subject. I had never even thought much on mill balls, and your explanation of the dynamics is excellent.

I of course had never hear of a 'hot shot' in these terms either, though of course hearing the expression in popular usage countless times, never thinking of its meaning. What was the purpose of this as opposed to a regular shot, was it intentional? Can you explain more on this, for myself and those not especially well versed in artillery.

Thanks very much again Nando!!! Really interesting item, you really find them!! and are great at sharing these curiosities here.

All the best,
Jim

22nd August 2010, 04:15 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Ever heard of a cannononball .. ovoid? This item lacks the basic condition for a ball, as it is not round ... but ovoid. However the (non professional) seller guaranteed this is surely a cannonball, kept by the family for a long time and having been found in a place where actually plenty war confrontations took place, both internal and Napoleonic. The weight and average diameter coincide with an 18 pounder. Byt i don't think this thing could be fired as it is; neither its deformation could be achieved by rolling on the ground after being shot ... it wouldn't become so perfectly ovoid. On the other hand, its texture looks exactky like that of a 18th or 19th century cannonball. What do you gentlemen think of this? Ever seen one like that? . Attached Images

22nd August 2010, 08:08 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,172	interesting cannonball site: Linky my first impression of the faceted surface was it was a worn ball mill ball.... Last edited by kronckew; 22nd August 2010 at 08:21 PM.

23rd August 2010, 04:33 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you all gentlemen, for your input. I had already been in that link website during my browsing, Wayne. It appears to me that this is not likely to be a mill ball. Those spheres are usuallly hardened steel, whereas my example is iron. I have phoned a cement maker technician; the wearing of mill balls has a smooth texture. Also i think that a mill ball, worn by continuous random tumbling, would get a alietory shape due to its variable movimentation and not such a regular one, which looks to have been submited to a specific rotation, orientated in a linear direction. I know nothing about metalurgy either, but probably a steel mill ball woud not degradate through time in the same manner, with such corrugated and scaled look. A remote probability would be considering that this ball was used for "hot shot", having been "stretched" in its itinerary through the barrel or, not hitting a direct impact target, having rolled on the ground in a regular manner (drum like), before cooling down. Thing is i don't even know if hotshot was used in Portugal . . Attached Images

22nd August 2010, 06:25 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, I am afraid I've never seen or come across a cannonball of such unique shape - ovoidal! What practical sense could it possibly have made? Fitting and rotating in a cannon barrel? No way, I would say. The only use I can think of would be throwing it from a catapult but then we would have to seek its "date of birth" in the 14th and 15th centuries. Highly interesting piece anyway and one of the unsolved riddles in historic weaponry ... Thank you for sharing this, and I do hope for some brainstorming from our members! Best wishes from a completely stumped Michael

22nd August 2010, 11:40 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,930	I really dont know much on artillery or ballistics, but I am inclined to go along with Krockew and think it might be a mill ball, from another field foreign to me, metallurgy. I have learned a lot from discussions with you guys and others outside our discussions which have included some that brought up these rather mundane utility type objects, which still in thier own right, have become interesting antique items. I would think that the ovoid shape would lend better to tumbling action, which would be important in crushing ore.

23rd August 2010, 05:39 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,930	Fernando, beautifully explained and nicely done on the research on this! Thank you. As I mentioned, this is way outside my field of study and it's great to learn more on this subject. I had never even thought much on mill balls, and your explanation of the dynamics is excellent. I of course had never hear of a 'hot shot' in these terms either, though of course hearing the expression in popular usage countless times, never thinking of its meaning. What was the purpose of this as opposed to a regular shot, was it intentional? Can you explain more on this, for myself and those not especially well versed in artillery. Thanks very much again Nando!!! Really interesting item, you really find them!! and are great at sharing these curiosities here. All the best, Jim