Caveat emptor!!!

ariel · 21st May 2006, 09:00 PM

Whoever wants to part with his money needs to look no further than here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
This one has very nice Persian blade and modern Syrian everything else. The blade is $750, the rest ($18,000) is Damascus municipal tax and VAT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
the signature of Assad Ullah MUST have looked just like that!
And this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
was already sold at least once and we have discussed it already:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
Who bid on this sword 33 times? Why was it offered again if it was already sold?
I have my explanations, but you may just add to the list...

nechesh · 21st May 2006, 09:31 PM

Ariel, are you suggesting that the stones in that first sword aren't reall ROBIES!

ariel · 21st May 2006, 10:18 PM

Robb-eries, more likely

Rick · 21st May 2006, 10:46 PM

Well , does anyone think the blades are old ?
So these are all old blades remounted recently ?
The sin of omission ?

ariel · 21st May 2006, 11:07 PM

Rick,
Were you on O.J.'s defence team?

"If the blade doesn't fit, you... still acquit!"

Rick · 22nd May 2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Rick,
Were you on O.J.'s defence team?

"If the blade doesn't fit, you... still acquit!"

No seriously Ariel , I'm no encyclopaedia of knowledge on these pieces .
Point out for me and "The Lurkers"

what to look for and the giveaways ; I agree the prices are too high but aside from that I would appreciate you taking me to school about these pieces .
Honest !

ALEX · 22nd May 2006, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Whoever wants to part with his money needs to look no further than here: ...
I have my explanations, but you may just add to the list...

Ariel,

You've made a nice point, and it's hard to disagree with the fact that the seller is asking above the norm. However, I think the Assad Allah stamps are authentic (the gold stamp is obviuosly new). It's a nice blade, and with the hilt - would $750 be an extreme, but the other way around?

M.carter · 22nd May 2006, 12:59 PM

Why shouldnt a beautiful wootz blade, like the ones seen here, cost as much as that, whilst you have many plain Japanese "superior" katana's, which cost at least twice more?

ALEX · 22nd May 2006, 01:32 PM

M.C. This is exactly my point. $750 for a blade like this would be a "bargain". Now, $18K is a lot, but it's not a "robbery" as previously stated by others (and I am sure humorously as well). In reality, even in Syria a sword like this will have a similar price tag, but could be bought for half of that.
Ariel, see what you've started

ariel · 22nd May 2006, 03:15 PM

The $755/$18,000 ratio was humorous.
No doubt in my mind that the blades are real and very good, especially the one with gold inlay and a signature. I doubt very much it is a real AssadUllah's signature purely on statistical grounds: he must have made ,- what?- 100? 200?- swords in his lifetime, but thousands of swordmakers put his name on their swords. If his signature is real, and it requires careful evaluation that cannot be done by us, screen gazers, then this sword should be valued way above $18,000. If not, it should be viewed as yet another very good Persian blade and bring what the market will bear.
However, my point is that both swords were grossly misrepresented. We all would agree that the fittings are modern. Well, even that is not a sin. But to claim that " all is original" is blatantly not true. This is a "restored" sword and should have been presented as such.
The circumstances of the repeated "sale" of the sword with the plainer blade
are intriguing. What "men with no names" bid on it? Who "wins" it ? Why is it appearing again and again at no reserve, reaching high prices and then being re-listed?
All together makes me wonder about the whole operation and the authenticity of other items as well. Buying from that seller is out of the question for me (even if I could spend $18,755

)

ALEX · 22nd May 2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The $755/$18,000 ratio was humorous.
I doubt very much it is a real AssadUllah's signature purely on statistical grounds: he must have made ,- what?- 100? 200?- swords in his lifetime, but thousands of swordmakers put his name on their swords.

)

Remember, AssadUllah means "God's Lion", so ANY sword with Persian Lion stamp IS AssadUllah. It's not a person, it's a school.
I just saw a real AL blade (with old AL name stamp as a person, not a school, just like in the Fiegel catalogue) just for $4K. BUT how do you tell who put the stamp on

M.carter · 22nd May 2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

The $755/$18,000 ratio was humorous.
No doubt in my mind that the blades are real and very good, especially the one with gold inlay and a signature. I doubt very much it is a real AssadUllah's signature purely on statistical grounds: he must have made ,- what?- 100? 200?- swords in his lifetime, but thousands of swordmakers put his name on their swords. If his signature is real, and it requires careful evaluation that cannot be done by us, screen gazers, then this sword should be valued way above $18,000. If not, it should be viewed as yet another very good Persian blade and bring what the market will bear.
However, my point is that both swords were grossly misrepresented. We all would agree that the fittings are modern. Well, even that is not a sin. But to claim that " all is original" is blatantly not true. This is a "restored" sword and should have been presented as such.
The circumstances of the repeated "sale" of the sword with the plainer blade
are intriguing. What "men with no names" bid on it? Who "wins" it ? Why is it appearing again and again at no reserve, reaching high prices and then being re-listed?
All together makes me wonder about the whole operation and the authenticity of other items as well. Buying from that seller is out of the question for me (even if I could spend $18,755

)

Apparently, Assadullah is still alive with us, and still making swords, in Syria, many newly made crap is still marked with the lion mark, "assadullah", and the famous phrase "Ya qadhi kul-il-hajat", "Oh fullfiller of all needs"

Seriously, there are more probably more than 800 blades in worldwide circulation, all bearing the assadullah sign, while most are Persian trade blades, noted specifically in Mr.Oliver Pinchot's great article, some must have been of assadullah's manufacture himself. Still, its not only the assadullah mark that gives great value to wootz blades, look at the other unmarked persian wootz blade, I would say that that blade, is probably was more valuable historically, than the marked one, as the unmarked blade is not a trade blade, its a blade of very high quality, and I suppose that commercialism has not played an important factor in its production, as with most persian trade blades.

21st May 2006, 09:00 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Caveat emptor!!! Whoever wants to part with his money needs to look no further than here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 This one has very nice Persian blade and modern Syrian everything else. The blade is $750, the rest ($18,000) is Damascus municipal tax and VAT http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 the signature of Assad Ullah MUST have looked just like that! And this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 was already sold at least once and we have discussed it already: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1 Who bid on this sword 33 times? Why was it offered again if it was already sold? I have my explanations, but you may just add to the list...

21st May 2006, 09:31 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Ariel, are you suggesting that the stones in that first sword aren't reall ROBIES!

21st May 2006, 10:18 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Robb-eries, more likely

21st May 2006, 10:46 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Well , does anyone think the blades are old ? So these are all old blades remounted recently ? The sin of omission ?

21st May 2006, 11:07 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Rick, Were you on O.J.'s defence team? "If the blade doesn't fit, you... still acquit!"

22nd May 2006, 12:59 PM	#8
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	Why shouldnt a beautiful wootz blade, like the ones seen here, cost as much as that, whilst you have many plain Japanese "superior" katana's, which cost at least twice more?

22nd May 2006, 01:32 PM	#9
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	M.C. This is exactly my point. $750 for a blade like this would be a "bargain". Now, $18K is a lot, but it's not a "robbery" as previously stated by others (and I am sure humorously as well). In reality, even in Syria a sword like this will have a similar price tag, but could be bought for half of that. Ariel, see what you've started

22nd May 2006, 03:15 PM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The $755/$18,000 ratio was humorous. No doubt in my mind that the blades are real and very good, especially the one with gold inlay and a signature. I doubt very much it is a real AssadUllah's signature purely on statistical grounds: he must have made ,- what?- 100? 200?- swords in his lifetime, but thousands of swordmakers put his name on their swords. If his signature is real, and it requires careful evaluation that cannot be done by us, screen gazers, then this sword should be valued way above $18,000. If not, it should be viewed as yet another very good Persian blade and bring what the market will bear. However, my point is that both swords were grossly misrepresented. We all would agree that the fittings are modern. Well, even that is not a sin. But to claim that " all is original" is blatantly not true. This is a "restored" sword and should have been presented as such. The circumstances of the repeated "sale" of the sword with the plainer blade are intriguing. What "men with no names" bid on it? Who "wins" it ? Why is it appearing again and again at no reserve, reaching high prices and then being re-listed? All together makes me wonder about the whole operation and the authenticity of other items as well. Buying from that seller is out of the question for me (even if I could spend $18,755 )