Discovered pirate coins might solve mystery...Arrgh!

M ELEY · 2nd April 2021, 04:22 AM

Sorry, couldn't resist. Everyone on this Forum knows my obsession with the sea dogs. Here's another incredible find that indeed might solve the mystery of what really happened to the nefarious Henry Avery/Every. For the interest of this discussion forum, I'd suggest the importance of coins in our collecting, which might lend information directing to our weapons collecting (for example, my Dutch hanger with the same marking found on Dutch dump coins of the late 17th c.) as well as supportive history (coins used to purchase items of the era, obvious stolen treasures, etc.). I currently have some copper cobs retrieved from Port Royal and a King William half-penny dated 1693 to show his profile, also found on my British hanger with his likeness on the guard). Pretty intriguing stuff!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ancient-c...051105975.html

Jim McDougall · 3rd April 2021, 06:57 AM

Ahoy Cap'n!
An EXCELLENT entry, and fascinating discoveries of these coins, which are unique enough, and corroborated enough to present convincing evidence that they may well have been part of this remarkable booty hoard.

While the volume of coinage must have been enormous, it seems likely that numbers of them might well have fallen to the ground in transporting the treasure from one place to another. It is always said that pirates did not bury their ill gotten gains, but simply spent the money frivolously. However, here were countless numbers of these strange coins of Arabia and India, which were hardly among currency usually exchanged in trade in America.
Still they would have been of value for the precious metals, so there was the rub.

Just how much of this 'heavy metal' would be feasible to carry in the pockets of the members of the crew? and there were no banks etc....so what then was done with what must have been chests of coin, not to mention jewels.
This suggests of course burial, at least for a time. Fate allowing, these guys probably retrieved these proceeds within short time, again presenting the opportunity for stray coinage to be accidentally deposited here and there.

Your point of the importance of coins in identification of markings on sword blades is well placed. As you note, the four dots on those 'dump' coins of the VOC do occur on Dutch blades, often on the quillon of some walloons as well.

I recall with an Afghan sword I had, there was a cartouche containing what appeared a Muslim shrine and some Arabic script. Eventually the same device was found on an Afghan coin of 1890s, and the mark was the state seal of Afghanistan. This was applied to blades from the Machin Khana arsenal in Kabul.

Often the royal cyphers found on blades can be matched to same found on coinage issued in the particular country of the sword, as well as substantiating the period.

Indeed a topic that is often salient in the study of arms! and ALWAYS key in the study of our favorite brothers of the sea!

M ELEY · 4th April 2021, 03:42 AM

Hello Jim and thanks for posting on this thread. I know there's questionability with this story, but it is an interesting theory and, as you pointed out, Arabic coins bearing that early date here in the states does indeed support the author's hypothesis. Also, from what the article implies, the coins were buried deeply, not as if someone had dropped them in the last hundred years or so. Also, the scattered pattern of where they were found by multiple searchers and in areas where people were back pre-Revolution. In any event, just another possible case to support all of the 'piratical' activity going on here in the Americas at the time!

Jim McDougall · 4th April 2021, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Hello Jim and thanks for posting on this thread. I know there's questionability with this story, but it is an interesting theory and, as you pointed out, Arabic coins bearing that early date here in the states does indeed support the author's hypothesis. Also, from what the article implies, the coins were buried deeply, not as if someone had dropped them in the last hundred years or so. Also, the scattered pattern of where they were found by multiple searchers and in areas where people were back pre-Revolution. In any event, just another possible case to support all of the 'piratical' activity going on here in the Americas at the time!

Actually, as you and I have often agree, there was a heck of a lot more 'brotherhood' activity than ever 'made the papers' !

The fact that these unusual coins were found in various locations that correspond to certain 'maritime' activity seems to present considerable plausibility to their possible connection to Every. These kinds of hauls were the exception in pirate looting and the typical coinage used in trade were Spanish or thalers as well as English coins of course. These 'exotic' coins would have been melted down for the precious metal value rather than carried about.
Just as with the huge number of shipwrecks that remain to be found, so too are the mysteries of the 'pirates'.....and we delight with every new discovery!

Rick · 6th April 2021, 01:39 AM

Remember that the Indian Ocean was a favorite hunting ground of many pirates including the memorable Captain Kidd (see attached) and the pirate Thomas Tew among others.
One thing that they seem to have had in common is that they were fond of frequenting the coast of America in their travels and Madagascar when cruising the Indian ocean.
It would be interesting to know if any Muslim coinage was found on the site of the wreck of Whidah Galley.

Jim McDougall · 6th April 2021, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Remember that the Indian Ocean was a favorite hunting ground of many pirates including the memorable Captain Kidd (see attached) and the pirate Thomas Tew among others.
One thing that they seem to have had in common is that they were fond of frequenting the coast of America in their travels and Madagascar when cruising the Indian ocean.
It would be interesting to know if any Muslim coinage was found on the site of the wreck of Whidah Galley.

Very well noted Rick! in fact the very downfall of Captain Kidd came about as a result of his transgressing against the relations between England and India by preying on the lucrative Mughal ships and their treasure. In his case, the document ( a French letter concerning the voyage of the vessel) which would have saved him from execution was remarkably discovered in 1911!

I do not recall Muslim coins found on the Whydah, and not sure if Black Sam Bellamy was in those waters frequented by the India vessels, however trade involves networking, so anything is possible. Most of coinage as far as I have known was from South America etc. but as with many wrecks, more is always being found.

2nd April 2021, 04:22 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,093	Discovered pirate coins might solve mystery...Arrgh! Sorry, couldn't resist. Everyone on this Forum knows my obsession with the sea dogs. Here's another incredible find that indeed might solve the mystery of what really happened to the nefarious Henry Avery/Every. For the interest of this discussion forum, I'd suggest the importance of coins in our collecting, which might lend information directing to our weapons collecting (for example, my Dutch hanger with the same marking found on Dutch dump coins of the late 17th c.) as well as supportive history (coins used to purchase items of the era, obvious stolen treasures, etc.). I currently have some copper cobs retrieved from Port Royal and a King William half-penny dated 1693 to show his profile, also found on my British hanger with his likeness on the guard). Pretty intriguing stuff! https://www.yahoo.com/news/ancient-c...051105975.html Last edited by M ELEY; 2nd April 2021 at 04:33 AM.

6th April 2021, 01:39 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Yo Ho Remember that the Indian Ocean was a favorite hunting ground of many pirates including the memorable Captain Kidd (see attached) and the pirate Thomas Tew among others. One thing that they seem to have had in common is that they were fond of frequenting the coast of America in their travels and Madagascar when cruising the Indian ocean. It would be interesting to know if any Muslim coinage was found on the site of the wreck of Whidah Galley. Attached Images

3rd April 2021, 06:57 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Ahoy Cap'n! An EXCELLENT entry, and fascinating discoveries of these coins, which are unique enough, and corroborated enough to present convincing evidence that they may well have been part of this remarkable booty hoard. While the volume of coinage must have been enormous, it seems likely that numbers of them might well have fallen to the ground in transporting the treasure from one place to another. It is always said that pirates did not bury their ill gotten gains, but simply spent the money frivolously. However, here were countless numbers of these strange coins of Arabia and India, which were hardly among currency usually exchanged in trade in America. Still they would have been of value for the precious metals, so there was the rub. Just how much of this 'heavy metal' would be feasible to carry in the pockets of the members of the crew? and there were no banks etc....so what then was done with what must have been chests of coin, not to mention jewels. This suggests of course burial, at least for a time. Fate allowing, these guys probably retrieved these proceeds within short time, again presenting the opportunity for stray coinage to be accidentally deposited here and there. Your point of the importance of coins in identification of markings on sword blades is well placed. As you note, the four dots on those 'dump' coins of the VOC do occur on Dutch blades, often on the quillon of some walloons as well. I recall with an Afghan sword I had, there was a cartouche containing what appeared a Muslim shrine and some Arabic script. Eventually the same device was found on an Afghan coin of 1890s, and the mark was the state seal of Afghanistan. This was applied to blades from the Machin Khana arsenal in Kabul. Often the royal cyphers found on blades can be matched to same found on coinage issued in the particular country of the sword, as well as substantiating the period. Indeed a topic that is often salient in the study of arms! and ALWAYS key in the study of our favorite brothers of the sea!

4th April 2021, 03:42 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,093	Hello Jim and thanks for posting on this thread. I know there's questionability with this story, but it is an interesting theory and, as you pointed out, Arabic coins bearing that early date here in the states does indeed support the author's hypothesis. Also, from what the article implies, the coins were buried deeply, not as if someone had dropped them in the last hundred years or so. Also, the scattered pattern of where they were found by multiple searchers and in areas where people were back pre-Revolution. In any event, just another possible case to support all of the 'piratical' activity going on here in the Americas at the time!