1822 British Lancer Mameluke

[JT88]

Good morning everyone! Trying to do some research on my latest acquisition and find some recommendations of sources to check.


This is an unusual piece as the blade is a "classical" Ottoman blade that could be as old as 15th century, certainly 16th century. There is no unit distinguishing marks on it. Mamelukes became fashionable post-Waterloo for the recently converted lancer units. Some units had been carrying them as early as 1805. Thus the options are 9th, 12th, 16th, and later 17th lancers. The fittings look to me to be generic. The 1822 regulation was like most regulations after the fact when the style began. This sword could be immediately post-Waterloo, and given its characteristics, no expense was spared by its owner. The leather on the scabbard shows a lot of aging but is likely an in-period replacement of the original velvet. Evidence of probable campaigning, along with the wear to the sheath rings. I'd guess this thing spent some time in India, though with which unit who knows.

Richard Dellar doesn't speak much on these swords, so the reason I'm here is to ask if anyone has some more references on these?

As you can see from the first picture the sword has some active rust, I gave it a light clean carefully avoiding the small remnants of writing. I was able to trace the writing and have it translated. It says "No one is the owner of everything and earth rather than Allah"

Cheers

[Jim McDougall]

These are pretty amazing sabers JT, and frankly seldom acquired by other than the most discerning collectors. While in my earlier days I did have one with the usual ivory mameluke style hilt, I regarded it as the 1831 pattern for staff officers (Robson, 1975). It was apparently through one of the outfitters in India, which seem most often in Calcutta (it may have been Harman, but of course Manton was more prevalent).

Actually Richard Dellar does address a number of these type officers 'mameluke' hilts in "The British Cavalry Sword 1788-1912" the companion volume (2019) to his remarkable reference book earlier.
His references refer of course to specific examples and details pertaining to their owners, and outstanding photos of each example.
Many have the 'stepped' tip of the distal third of the blade, which was of course from the Turkic style blades of India and often on tulwar blades.

This blade feature became popular in England during the early development of the British regulation patterns, and especially with officers, whose carte blanche latitude with privately commissioned swords permitted such variations.

As you note, the mameluke style saber was much favored by both French and British officers after the Egyptian campaigns 1798-1802, and the trend to adopt the form became popular in following years. The early example you note was by Samuel Brunn, Charing Cross, London in 1805.
The 1822 regulations prescribed these style hilts for the newly formed lancer regiments (9th, 12th and 16th light cavalry).

These 'stepped' tip blades were being produced in Solingen for England in earlier years as seen in a number of officers sabers produced in the earlier years of the century. These seem to have been intended for EIC officers, but these blades were also used for the group of sabers (27) for the 10th Hussars in 1808.

It seems most likely your example has an Indian tulwar blade from India which reflects the style being reproduced in Germany for England as seen in these examples pictured, on the left is the 10th Hussar pattern. The group of these blades were in England some time before 1808 so it seems apparent Solingen was producing early in the century. The next is what is believed a somewhat limited type of saber believed for EIC about 1800 (as noted by Wilkinson).
At this point I would suggest this is a Turkic type blade from India rather than Ottoman, and a remarkable example using a tulwar blade. As far as I know these instances were quite unusual.

[kronckew]

For reference, the UK 1831 pattern Mameluke sword for general officers of Major General and higher ranks. It is a current pattern. Note the yelman-like false edge on the tip area. I believe the current scabbards are steel, with brass suspension ring fittings. They are of course, unsharpened so the Generals won't hurt themselves, or anyone else.

[JT88]

Thank you for the replies Jim and Kronk!

I'll have to ask my Turkish expert friend again, he was able to translate the writing on the edge. He called the blade-style "Classical Ottoman" from the 16th-17th century. I can ask him if he for sure thinks it's Ottoman or of an Indian make.

I have Richard Dellar's original book but have just ordered his companion volume which I've heard is better for this subject. Are there any other books you know of that may be useful here?

It is an incredible sword, I am still working on restoring the wootz. It has acted very differently than my Ottoman Pala which was very sensitive to etching. This steel is incredibly difficult to bring out the wootz even with a strong etchant and I've had success with polishing it afterward to bring out some of the patterns.

From what I can tell I do not think I will be able to discern by characteristics exactly which lancer unit this belonged to. It is an incredible sword, its owner/creator spared no expense.

[Bryce]

G'day JT88,
Without any sort of marking it is impossible to identify what sort of officer owned your sword. It wasn't just Lancer officers who carried them. It could have been carried by any cavalry officer (light or heavy) or senior (or even not so senior but well-off!) army officer.

What makes you think the blade could be as early as 15th century? If you want to learn more about the blade it would be a good idea to post some better photos over on the Ethnographic Weapons forum. There are several people who frequent that forum who know a lot about these type of blades.

Cheers,
Bryce

[JT88]

The fittings are described as generic lancer fittings from what I’ve seen. But anyone with the money especially to mount such a special blade could essentially do what they want. These swords originally had velvet on the scabbard. Too bad it’s gone, the color could clue to which unit.

I have a Turkish smith buddy who specializes in classical Ottoman weapons. He says it is 16th-17th century maybe early 18th. Ottomans transition to more what we would call a “pala” in that timeframe.

Also the type of writing on the side lends a clue, it is an older Turkish dialect he says.

I’ve been working on the wootz today, carefully balancing leaving the aging and bringing out the wootz. It’s incredible quality of wootz, wait til I post some photos of it. Puts my pala to shame.