Machete ? Agricultural tool ?

thomas hauschild · 4th November 2020, 03:05 PM

Don‘t know what this (20€)-find could be. 64 cm length, very thin (2 mm) and flexible blade.
-The back of the blade is nearly sharp with a convex shape. Maybe to swing forwards and backwards ?
- A tang that I never saw before. ( grip is loose and only fragments left)
- a forging mark
- raffinated steel, more hardened at the front ( black etch)

Any comments welcome and Admins feel free to move the post.

Best Thomas

RSWORD · 4th November 2020, 06:29 PM

Could this be an example of the proverbial "sword beaten into plowshare"?

DhaDha · 4th November 2020, 08:02 PM

The blade reminds me of a SE Asian Mak.

David R · 4th November 2020, 10:54 PM

The thing to remember is that in some cultures at some points in time, every blade is made from a nice (to us) laminated steel/iron whatever the status of the item. That's just how a blade was made.
And worth admiration for the skill and natural beauty involved anyway.

Battara · 5th November 2020, 12:51 AM

I agree with David due to the fact that some areas that don't have a lot of quality steel.

Peter Dekker · 5th November 2020, 01:13 PM

Interesting piece!

While I agree that laminated steel is seen on pretty much all pre-industrially made Asian edged tools, from chisels to scissors to knives and swords of all types and all qualities.. what we see here is a rather deliberate effect. Especially the combination of straight lines in the middle and wavy lines near the edge is something that doesn't generally appear without some very intentional effort put into it.

It reminds strongly of the horse tooth patterned swords made among others in Yunnan. To get that wavy effect near the edge, the smith forges the edge a little thicker than necessary and then bends sections of the edge up and down. He then grinds the edge flat again, so what you get is that you look deeper into the layers at each wave. (If this method is used, then each wave on one side should be in the middle of two on the other.)

The effect on the Chinese swords I know of is a little more outspoken and neater, but due to the structure of the steel these effects water down somewhat after repeated sharpening, as the effects get less pronounced closer to the core of the piece. That might be what we are seeing here.

I add some photos of a pretty little duandao I used to own that was made like this. It is also seen on a North Vietnamese sword of the late 17th century that was once owned by Czar Peter the Great, now held in the Hermitage in St. Petersburg.

kronckew · 7th November 2020, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DhaDha

The blade reminds me of a SE Asian Mak.

Me too! Especially the 'weaponised' ones...
See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6204

My more mundain villager Mak:

4th November 2020, 03:05 PM	#1
thomas hauschild Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Germany Posts: 139	Machete ? Agricultural tool ? Don‘t know what this (20€)-find could be. 64 cm length, very thin (2 mm) and flexible blade. -The back of the blade is nearly sharp with a convex shape. Maybe to swing forwards and backwards ? - A tang that I never saw before. ( grip is loose and only fragments left) - a forging mark - raffinated steel, more hardened at the front ( black etch) Any comments welcome and Admins feel free to move the post. Best Thomas Attached Images

5th November 2020, 01:13 PM	#6
Peter Dekker Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kingdom of the Netherlands Posts: 63	Interesting piece! While I agree that laminated steel is seen on pretty much all pre-industrially made Asian edged tools, from chisels to scissors to knives and swords of all types and all qualities.. what we see here is a rather deliberate effect. Especially the combination of straight lines in the middle and wavy lines near the edge is something that doesn't generally appear without some very intentional effort put into it. It reminds strongly of the horse tooth patterned swords made among others in Yunnan. To get that wavy effect near the edge, the smith forges the edge a little thicker than necessary and then bends sections of the edge up and down. He then grinds the edge flat again, so what you get is that you look deeper into the layers at each wave. (If this method is used, then each wave on one side should be in the middle of two on the other.) The effect on the Chinese swords I know of is a little more outspoken and neater, but due to the structure of the steel these effects water down somewhat after repeated sharpening, as the effects get less pronounced closer to the core of the piece. That might be what we are seeing here. I add some photos of a pretty little duandao I used to own that was made like this. It is also seen on a North Vietnamese sword of the late 17th century that was once owned by Czar Peter the Great, now held in the Hermitage in St. Petersburg. Attached Images

4th November 2020, 06:29 PM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Could this be an example of the proverbial "sword beaten into plowshare"?

4th November 2020, 08:02 PM	#3
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 165	The blade reminds me of a SE Asian Mak.

4th November 2020, 10:54 PM	#4
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	The thing to remember is that in some cultures at some points in time, every blade is made from a nice (to us) laminated steel/iron whatever the status of the item. That's just how a blade was made. And worth admiration for the skill and natural beauty involved anyway.

5th November 2020, 12:51 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,217	I agree with David due to the fact that some areas that don't have a lot of quality steel.