Java dress questions and translation

Gavin Nugent · 2nd July 2023, 04:51 AM

I've been waiting for this to arrive for many months now and I finally have it in hand to provide images and ask questions.

YES, the hulu is reversed... it is set fast.

1/ Is the hulu Deder Yogyakarta?
2/ Is the timber Timoho?
3/ The Warangka seems a little broader than most at 6cms... it this typical or denote anything?
4/ Can anyone offer insights or translation to the inked characters to the side of the Warangka?
5/ Are there any determining factors in the images presented which could be indicative of a safe estimated age range for the dress?

Any other insights welcome.

Gavin

EDIT' Mods, can you please rotate images, they were in the correct orientation on my PC.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd July 2023, 07:43 AM

Based upon what I believe I can see, this hilt & wrongko looks like East Jawa, maybe East of North Coast through to East Jawa and maybe including Madura.

The wood might be timoho, it is certainly pelet.

Wrongko looks true to type, from the pics there does not seem to be anything unusual about it. A full length shot would help, but from what I can see the wrongko looks to be kagok capu, this form is found in Surakarta, but more commonly in Madura & East Jawa.

The hilt looks a bit like a Jogja narada kandha, but it appears to be too robust for this, the hilt style tends to Balinese bebondolan, but is too small for that.In my opinion, East Jawa. Mendak is North Coast through to East Jawa & Madura.

I cannot read the text.

For me, absolutely impossible to give an age assessment on dress that I could rationally defend, but if you'll settle for a rough guess:- pre-WWII.

I really do need to see the blade to have a halfway decent idea of what we're dealing with.

kai · 2nd July 2023, 09:17 AM

Hello Gavin,

Quote:

Can anyone offer insights or translation to the inked characters to the side of the Warangka?

I'd guess at Japanese script from WWII...

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 2nd July 2023, 09:47 AM

Hello Gav,

Like Alan I would place the scabbard and hilt to East Java. And pictures from the complete keris and the blade would be very helpful.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 2nd July 2023, 04:55 PM

I think pre-WWII is a safe bet. But it could, of course, be older.
I would also place this as East Jawa. Though not a deciding factor, the mendak style is also East Jawa.
I realize your questions right now are about the sheath, but will you show the blade as well?

Gavin Nugent · 3rd July 2023, 11:33 AM

Thanks gents.

My query was only on the dress because it has a non Java blade within and that I found the hulu particularly interesting to me.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd July 2023, 01:47 PM

If non-Jowo Gavin, what is it?

A keris complete can sometimes tell a story, just looking at hats & coats tell us little about who wore them.

2nd July 2023, 04:51 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Java dress questions and translation I've been waiting for this to arrive for many months now and I finally have it in hand to provide images and ask questions. YES, the hulu is reversed... it is set fast. 1/ Is the hulu Deder Yogyakarta? 2/ Is the timber Timoho? 3/ The Warangka seems a little broader than most at 6cms... it this typical or denote anything? 4/ Can anyone offer insights or translation to the inked characters to the side of the Warangka? 5/ Are there any determining factors in the images presented which could be indicative of a safe estimated age range for the dress? Any other insights welcome. Gavin EDIT' Mods, can you please rotate images, they were in the correct orientation on my PC. Attached Images Last edited by Gavin Nugent; 2nd July 2023 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Mod request

2nd July 2023, 09:47 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,734	Hello Gav, Like Alan I would place the scabbard and hilt to East Java. And pictures from the complete keris and the blade would be very helpful. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

2nd July 2023, 07:43 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,859	Based upon what I believe I can see, this hilt & wrongko looks like East Jawa, maybe East of North Coast through to East Jawa and maybe including Madura. The wood might be timoho, it is certainly pelet. Wrongko looks true to type, from the pics there does not seem to be anything unusual about it. A full length shot would help, but from what I can see the wrongko looks to be kagok capu, this form is found in Surakarta, but more commonly in Madura & East Jawa. The hilt looks a bit like a Jogja narada kandha, but it appears to be too robust for this, the hilt style tends to Balinese bebondolan, but is too small for that.In my opinion, East Jawa. Mendak is North Coast through to East Jawa & Madura. I cannot read the text. For me, absolutely impossible to give an age assessment on dress that I could rationally defend, but if you'll settle for a rough guess:- pre-WWII. I really do need to see the blade to have a halfway decent idea of what we're dealing with.

2nd July 2023, 04:55 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,103	I think pre-WWII is a safe bet. But it could, of course, be older. I would also place this as East Jawa. Though not a deciding factor, the mendak style is also East Jawa. I realize your questions right now are about the sheath, but will you show the blade as well?

3rd July 2023, 11:33 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks gents. My query was only on the dress because it has a non Java blade within and that I found the hulu particularly interesting to me.

3rd July 2023, 01:47 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,859	If non-Jowo Gavin, what is it? A keris complete can sometimes tell a story, just looking at hats & coats tell us little about who wore them.