Algerian Kaybele/Ifflyssen?

kronckew · 15th October 2020, 05:57 PM

Found this orphan and it decided to come live with me. Not your normal flyssa.
The wire-work on the grip and decorations on the blade made me think it's Algerian.
So far it's an internet affair, so no other info or dimensions until it wends its way from the continent...

Any comments appreciated. Thanks to all.
(Vendor's photos)

mariusgmioc · 15th October 2020, 06:31 PM

Yes, Algerian indeed, but in the style of European military daggers.

Very interesting!

Sajen · 15th October 2020, 08:39 PM

Hello Wayne,

Think that it's tourist grade, second half 20th century. Similar to the so called wedding nimchas.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 15th October 2020, 08:48 PM

See also the third blade from the 1. post in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...wedding+nimcha

kronckew · 16th October 2020, 06:06 AM

Doubt mine is your typical non-functional curved 'wedding nimcha' & doen't have a 'nimcha-like' grip. The wire-work is the same, but that is typical algerian.

As the ref. thread notes No. 3 is NOT a touristy wedding nimcha, but a proper 'knife'.

Yvain · 16th October 2020, 07:20 AM

"Proper knife" and "made for visiting French colonizers" aren't mutually exclusive. Camille Lacoste, in her article "Sabres Kabyles" (https://www.persee.fr/doc/jafr_0037-...1_T1_0135_0000), describes the evolution of the flissa after the conquest of Algeria, outlining the development of new forms adapted to this growing market :

-grip attached by the mean of an hidden tang instead of the traditional integral bolster and flat short tang

-no brass cover on the grip and non-traditional shapes (there is also old flissa grips without brass covers, but they are then shaped in the traditional way)

-the appearance of a small iron guard

Moreover, still according to Lacoste, the Iflissen lost their monopoly on blade making after the 1850's, and those modern flissa were also frequently made by the Aït Fraoussen or the Aït Yenni.

However, Lacoste, writing in the 1950's, states that this development of new forms started one century earlier. So this could indeed be an 19th century flissa (judging from the apparent good quality of the blade, I don't believe it was made during the second part of the 20th century, but it's hard to tell from those pictures), though, it is not of a traditional design and was most likely made for French visitors.

Sajen · 17th October 2020, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Doubt mine is your typical non-functional curved 'wedding nimcha' & doen't have a 'nimcha-like' grip. The wire-work is the same, but that is typical algerian.

As the ref. thread notes No. 3 is NOT a touristy wedding nimcha, but a proper 'knife'.

Hello Wayne,

It wasn't my intention to offend you in any way and my age guess was a little bit to late, mid. 20th century or before sounds better and I feel also better by it.

And I think as well that we need to remove more as 50% of all threads when we would exclude blades worked only for collecting purpose.

Attached two pictures from similar daggers, all very functional like yours.

Regards,
Detlef

15th October 2020, 05:57 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	Algerian Kaybele/Ifflyssen? Found this orphan and it decided to come live with me. Not your normal flyssa. The wire-work on the grip and decorations on the blade made me think it's Algerian. So far it's an internet affair, so no other info or dimensions until it wends its way from the continent... Any comments appreciated. Thanks to all. (Vendor's photos) Attached Images

15th October 2020, 06:31 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Yes, Algerian indeed, but in the style of European military daggers. Very interesting!

15th October 2020, 08:39 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Hello Wayne, Think that it's tourist grade, second half 20th century. Similar to the so called wedding nimchas. Regards, Detlef

15th October 2020, 08:48 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	See also the third blade from the 1. post in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...wedding+nimcha

16th October 2020, 06:06 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	Doubt mine is your typical non-functional curved 'wedding nimcha' & doen't have a 'nimcha-like' grip. The wire-work is the same, but that is typical algerian. As the ref. thread notes No. 3 is NOT a touristy wedding nimcha, but a proper 'knife'.

16th October 2020, 07:20 AM	#6
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 178	"Proper knife" and "made for visiting French colonizers" aren't mutually exclusive. Camille Lacoste, in her article "Sabres Kabyles" (https://www.persee.fr/doc/jafr_0037-...1_T1_0135_0000), describes the evolution of the flissa after the conquest of Algeria, outlining the development of new forms adapted to this growing market : -grip attached by the mean of an hidden tang instead of the traditional integral bolster and flat short tang -no brass cover on the grip and non-traditional shapes (there is also old flissa grips without brass covers, but they are then shaped in the traditional way) -the appearance of a small iron guard Moreover, still according to Lacoste, the Iflissen lost their monopoly on blade making after the 1850's, and those modern flissa were also frequently made by the Aït Fraoussen or the Aït Yenni. However, Lacoste, writing in the 1950's, states that this development of new forms started one century earlier. So this could indeed be an 19th century flissa (judging from the apparent good quality of the blade, I don't believe it was made during the second part of the 20th century, but it's hard to tell from those pictures), though, it is not of a traditional design and was most likely made for French visitors.