Balinese Keris For Comment

Lew · 3rd August 2005, 02:06 AM

Hi Guys

This just ended. http://cgi.ebay.com/kris-knife-keris...QQcmdZViewItem

It looks more recent but of good quality it shows a nice pamor. Here are some close ups of the blade.

Lew

Rick · 3rd August 2005, 12:59 PM

Hi Lew , I bought this piece from the same Seller :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6544786628

The workmanship is quite good .
I'm pretty pleased with it for new Madura work , those guys are getting pretty advanced .

Only problem I had with my piece is that the gandar had twisted making for a poor,and very tight fit for the blade . I have been adderessing this problem with 60 grit sandpaper and the fit has improved quite a bit .
Instead of that funky deerhorn it now sports an ebony Kocet kocetan .

I like the pamor on mine (it's chatoyant) , but is probably not correct for a Bali blade .

Pictures when I get my computer back .

nechesh · 3rd August 2005, 01:39 PM

Hey Lew, like Rick's example from the same dealer, this one is also recent and not Balinese work. There are file marks on it that you would never find on Balinese pieces. It probably comes from Madura. I do agree that the workmanship is fairly nice on it.

Boedhi Adhitya · 4th August 2005, 06:34 AM

Hei Lew, I agree with Nechesh and Rick opinions. Your blade came from Madura, and a fairly nice piece too.
The Madura makers have fairly advanced today. Some of them have became specialists, only doing the cold working or only work on the forging process. By doing so, their mastery in this art will be quite high. Today first-class work of Madura would almost 100% identic with the Java nem-neman works, from late 19 - early 20 c. But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies.

best regards.

nechesh · 4th August 2005, 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=Boedhi Adhitya] Today first-class work of Madura would almost 100% identic with the Java nem-neman works, from late 19 - early 20 c. But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies.
[QUOTE]

Give them time.....

Rick · 4th August 2005, 02:27 PM

I'll only be frowning if they're passed off as real Nechesh .

I am not aware of evidence of a resurgence of keris making in Bali and I love Bali pieces as I know you do .

We must be honest with ourselves ; the Madura bunch are the only ones really keeping keris making alive for us plebians who cannot dream of affording a high quality Jawa or Bali piece .

Much better to see the Maduran work approaching high standards than to see the art die out forever , no ?

Rick

Mans · 4th August 2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

.... The Madura makers have fairly advanced today. Some of them have became specialists, only doing the cold working or only work on the forging process.......
.... But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies.

best regards.

I posted another example of Maduranese keris in Balinese style with nice looks pamor pattern.

Rgds,
Mans.

Boedhi Adhitya · 5th August 2005, 05:05 AM

Well, that's a good Bali-style blade, Mans ! I'm inexperience in Bali blades, but if only The Maduras work on watermelon-skin pamor and polish the blade (sangling) like most Balinesse do, most of all would be in troubles

Nechesh, I regret that the time seems has almost, if not already, come

Be prepare and.. good luck !

The new kerises has also been becoming my concern. There is a confusion in Java on how to treat this new breed. In spite of growing acceptance, most Javanese (and other Indonesian) still treating kerises more than just an art.
But in the end, we have to ask ourselves, what we are really looking at.

In case of Bali blades, if the Madura smiths move to Bali, perhaps the acceptance would be higher, since the blades is really "made in Bali", it would not be felt as a "Rolex made in China". Just my speculative thought

best regards

Rocarnice · 11th August 2005, 05:52 PM

Hello,
I've only become a member today. I am a sword collector and by chance got in possession of I think a beautiful Keris Bali with a silver/gold? Brahmaan hilt. I am preparing some pics which I will put on the forum later so hoping that you can give me some more interesting details. I think it is more than 100 years old and what I am most curious about is if the Brahmaan symbol has often been used as a hilt for keris. Myself I have done some research on the internet but couldn't find any keris yet with such a Brahmaan (Brahmin) hilt.
thanks.

Rick · 11th August 2005, 06:08 PM

Hello and welcome Rocarnice !

Looking forward to seeing your pictures .

Picture posting information can be found in the first post at the top of the forum page .

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4

Rocarnice · 11th August 2005, 09:16 PM

Hi Rick,

Here are some pics, hope they're of good quality in order to do a first assessment. Please let me know if more pics are necessary, for instance of the blade... Thanks

Tim Simmons · 11th August 2005, 09:27 PM

This really is not my cup of tea but in this we see that folded finger gesture in the right hand, like in the thread started by wolviex. Tim

nechesh · 11th August 2005, 10:32 PM

Hi Rocarnice, pretty looking keris you've got there.

The photos aren't great, but i would hazzard a guess that this is a fairly recent creation, especially the hilt. This isn't to say it doesn't have value and the silver, gold and all those stones are very nice.
I would also bet this is not a Balinese keris, inspite of it's initial appearence. The kinatah work (gold) on the blade does not look like Balinese work (i think only very few Bali keris have kinatah at all and those patterns and execution are different) and the keris does not appear to have the type of polished finish which is common on Balinese keris. Perhaps another recent Madurese blade? It is possible that the blade is older and it's just the kinatah that's new, but for somehow i doubt that. From the last photo it appears to have that even wear finish that is common on artifically aged Madurese keris. This looks like the type of flashy keris that is created to attract the western collectors. Pretty and certainly worth it's weight in gold, silver and gemstones.

3rd August 2005, 02:06 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Balinese Keris For Comment Hi Guys This just ended. http://cgi.ebay.com/kris-knife-keris...QQcmdZViewItem It looks more recent but of good quality it shows a nice pamor. Here are some close ups of the blade. Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 3rd August 2005 at 02:41 AM.

3rd August 2005, 12:59 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	Same Seller Hi Lew , I bought this piece from the same Seller : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6544786628 The workmanship is quite good . I'm pretty pleased with it for new Madura work , those guys are getting pretty advanced . Only problem I had with my piece is that the gandar had twisted making for a poor,and very tight fit for the blade . I have been adderessing this problem with 60 grit sandpaper and the fit has improved quite a bit . Instead of that funky deerhorn it now sports an ebony Kocet kocetan . I like the pamor on mine (it's chatoyant) , but is probably not correct for a Bali blade . Pictures when I get my computer back .

11th August 2005, 05:52 PM	#9
Rocarnice Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5	Keris Bali for comments (1) Hello, I've only become a member today. I am a sword collector and by chance got in possession of I think a beautiful Keris Bali with a silver/gold? Brahmaan hilt. I am preparing some pics which I will put on the forum later so hoping that you can give me some more interesting details. I think it is more than 100 years old and what I am most curious about is if the Brahmaan symbol has often been used as a hilt for keris. Myself I have done some research on the internet but couldn't find any keris yet with such a Brahmaan (Brahmin) hilt. thanks.

11th August 2005, 09:16 PM	#11
Rocarnice Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5	Hi Rick, Here are some pics, hope they're of good quality in order to do a first assessment. Please let me know if more pics are necessary, for instance of the blade... Thanks Attached Images

3rd August 2005, 01:39 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Lew, like Rick's example from the same dealer, this one is also recent and not Balinese work. There are file marks on it that you would never find on Balinese pieces. It probably comes from Madura. I do agree that the workmanship is fairly nice on it.

4th August 2005, 06:34 AM	#4
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Hei Lew, I agree with Nechesh and Rick opinions. Your blade came from Madura, and a fairly nice piece too. The Madura makers have fairly advanced today. Some of them have became specialists, only doing the cold working or only work on the forging process. By doing so, their mastery in this art will be quite high. Today first-class work of Madura would almost 100% identic with the Java nem-neman works, from late 19 - early 20 c. But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies. best regards.

4th August 2005, 12:28 PM	#5
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	[QUOTE=Boedhi Adhitya] Today first-class work of Madura would almost 100% identic with the Java nem-neman works, from late 19 - early 20 c. But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies. [QUOTE] Give them time.....

4th August 2005, 02:27 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	I'll only be frowning if they're passed off as real Nechesh . I am not aware of evidence of a resurgence of keris making in Bali and I love Bali pieces as I know you do . We must be honest with ourselves ; the Madura bunch are the only ones really keeping keris making alive for us plebians who cannot dream of affording a high quality Jawa or Bali piece . Much better to see the Maduran work approaching high standards than to see the art die out forever , no ? Rick

5th August 2005, 05:05 AM	#8
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Well, that's a good Bali-style blade, Mans ! I'm inexperience in Bali blades, but if only The Maduras work on watermelon-skin pamor and polish the blade (sangling) like most Balinesse do, most of all would be in troubles Nechesh, I regret that the time seems has almost, if not already, come Be prepare and.. good luck ! The new kerises has also been becoming my concern. There is a confusion in Java on how to treat this new breed. In spite of growing acceptance, most Javanese (and other Indonesian) still treating kerises more than just an art. But in the end, we have to ask ourselves, what we are really looking at. In case of Bali blades, if the Madura smiths move to Bali, perhaps the acceptance would be higher, since the blades is really "made in Bali", it would not be felt as a "Rolex made in China". Just my speculative thought best regards

11th August 2005, 06:08 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,287	Hello and welcome Rocarnice ! Looking forward to seeing your pictures . Picture posting information can be found in the first post at the top of the forum page . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4

11th August 2005, 09:27 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,781	This really is not my cup of tea but in this we see that folded finger gesture in the right hand, like in the thread started by wolviex. Tim

11th August 2005, 10:32 PM	#13
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Rocarnice, pretty looking keris you've got there. The photos aren't great, but i would hazzard a guess that this is a fairly recent creation, especially the hilt. This isn't to say it doesn't have value and the silver, gold and all those stones are very nice. I would also bet this is not a Balinese keris, inspite of it's initial appearence. The kinatah work (gold) on the blade does not look like Balinese work (i think only very few Bali keris have kinatah at all and those patterns and execution are different) and the keris does not appear to have the type of polished finish which is common on Balinese keris. Perhaps another recent Madurese blade? It is possible that the blade is older and it's just the kinatah that's new, but for somehow i doubt that. From the last photo it appears to have that even wear finish that is common on artifically aged Madurese keris. This looks like the type of flashy keris that is created to attract the western collectors. Pretty and certainly worth it's weight in gold, silver and gemstones.